Radiator valves and stuck nuts

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Radiator valves and stuck nuts
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NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4630
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 22 7:34 am Post subject: Radiator valves and stuck nuts

I'm attempting to do a proper job and tilt the bathroom radiator away from the wall so I can decorate behind it.
Turn the valves off and loosen the connecting nuts (on the radiator side!), said Youtube. Which went fine on the one side, but on the other side the nut is so well stuck that I've stressed the main copper pipe and given it a slow leak.

On looking closer, it seems like the nut has had some sealant applied before tightening up (a bit of copper coloured ooze).
Now what? I take it this compound is permanent? So I can't adjust or replace this valve at all?

I was half thinking of replacing this with a towel-ladder type radiator, should I just do that while I'm messing about?

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 22 8:22 am Post subject:
given you now have a slow leak, I would go the whole hog and put in new radiator too. Always the way, one small job generates another and another...

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 22 8:23 am Post subject:

oops

mending the drip will depend on the circumstances

for future, a long handle 4" mini roller is the tool for painting or sticking paper behind a radiator in a re-surfacing job and requires no plumbing challenges
if doing a deep prep and decorate, drain the system, remove all the rads, do them on a bench and do the walls with no obstructions, put it back together(or replace the CH with stuff that works, anecdote suggests most CH systems are less than optimal)

ps the advice to loosen and tilt is not a method i have ever found a pro using, apart from anything else every rad is different and although that might work some with most there will be a chain of problems started.

re sealing the drips bent pipe etc, you need to drain down, fix the pipe, refit the rad with due care to dirt and sealing etc, refill and commission
i will try to talk you through it, but i have little faith in my "mission control" capacity on an unknown system by messaging

do you know a decent plumber?
there are assorted "can do"techniques that might help, but they are rather eyeball/hands on as a menu to choose from

it may be as simple as undo the nut, add a bit of ptfe tape, re-tighten nut
it might not

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4630
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 22 8:59 am Post subject:

Always the way!

The twist has affected where the main copper enters the radiator valve, so could be as simple as re-fitting, checking the olive, etc. That's about my skill limit! The actual pipe is not bent or split at least.
It's also the uppermost radiator in the house / circuit so gravity is on my side for this one.

It seems like they did all the plumbing and pipework AFTER wallpapering, so removing the paper is "fun".

The snag with replacing the radiator entirely is that the newer one would be narrower that the older one, so I would need to extend or otherwise mess with the existing copper pipe? Also some research needed into new valves etc.

Or, as you suggest, a real plumber!

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 22 3:14 pm Post subject:

try a bit of ptfe tape and a tweak to around twenty foot pounds on the mobile wrench while holding the centre of the valve lugs in place with the other wrench is best advice for a quick cheap option, if, hooves crossed, it does the job cheap and only a short time draining a bit and refilling

there is a 50/50 chance full draining might not be required if depressurizing and turning off valves can stem any leak to not being a problem in a drop the nut add tape refit nut job( very carefully if you want a good day )
see eyeball (and ears)and experience

first question, has it got an expansion tank or is it a closed system? nice to know as they need different approaches

second question, do you like taking a DREW sort of attitude to it? is "it aint leaking now" the top priority?

before you start any sort of draining activities, if you choose to accept the mission, obtain spare radiator bleed plugs, make sure at least one spare and about your person in a survival kit sort of way and the bleed key is attached to you, dont ask why it was embarrassing and funny on several occasions, bounce bounce bounce and between the floorboards is a classic

first thing to try is 2 wrenches that fit the nut with decent torque and hold the valve body in place while tightening the nut, it may be that simple, worth a try
report back if that does not nip it up and sort it
re how much torque, less than a wheelnut and more than a sewing machine
mend and the expensive things are different

so be firmly gentle

you can do this with no draining, plausible re- seal for nowt but a skilled firm tweak to tighten and relocate the original sealing
nowt to lose trying that, it might not work, it might, ps i hate pipes i know their ways

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 22 3:15 pm Post subject:
can you do a photo of it?

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15996

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 22 7:10 am Post subject:
Before doing too much I would suggest a large bowl under the offending item, just in case.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 22 8:06 am Post subject:
If I've read right, you've not yet got the joint loose? In which case try heating it. If you've actually damaged the pipe, or if you want to fit a narrower radiator, it's not a major issue to extend the pipe; maybe fit an isolator valve in case of next time. Last time I was shopping, they came cheaper than straight through connectors.

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4630
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 22 3:54 pm Post subject:

Lost my laptop charger

I dithered a bit, and then enabled by HL, thought maybe changing the pipes could work. And I do like a towel radiator....

So I risked taking the valve off with the radiator, have covered the end of the pipe with an isolation valve just in case, but so far so good. Shiny new radiator - tall and thin - on order.

In for a penny and all that...
Next daylight job is swapping the basin and bath taps over, I've decided to install braided hoses with isolation valves for future helpfullness, currently everything is straight into copper pipe.

Currently wondering about push-fit components, I've been using compression because that's more familiar.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 22 5:43 pm Post subject:
I'm a big fan of putting in an isolation valve at every opportunity. Saves a lot of hassle later.

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4630
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 22 8:12 pm Post subject:
Especially as the main stopcock is jammed (plumber didn't come back to quote) so it's a lot of running to the pavement outside to turn the main-mains tap off! Also I think I have a header tank in the loft, going on the distinct sounds of running water. Which means I need a ladder to get up there...

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 22 12:22 am Post subject:

isolating valves are ace, flexihose is wonderful stuff for taps

im not sure about push fit stuff, i know about wrenches and blowlamps, solder wherever practical and use compression where i need to

get access to loft void, check the tank/s, valves and anything else such as leaky roof, vermin, does it need more insulation, do the electrics look safe

that last one is probably the first to eyeball, finding a missing junction box cover or crumbly insulation with your hand is not fun

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15996

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 22 7:55 am Post subject:

I would second isolation valves. Husband fitted one to MILs toilet cistern after she tried to 'adjust' the ball cock and created a fountain which hit the ceiling and soaked her. SIL who lived close turned off the water and called husband, who got it temporarily sorted then put in isolation valve later. When we got there MIL was looking rather like a rather sorry drowned rat. My part was giving her a talking to about not trying to do work like that herself. Combination of talking to and getting soaked worked for once thank goodness.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 22 12:03 pm Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 22 12:07 pm Post subject:

so my late husband used push fittings to install the downstairs sink. And it gave way. I thought my son was running a lot of water.. when I went to investigate found he was not there, but the entire tank of hot water had emptied itself onto the bathroom floor - and if I had been asleep or away from home it would have carried on as the tank refilled itself from the mains.... we were ankle deep in hot water... fortunately a step down from the rest of the house so just that bathroom and utility were flooded.

Suffice to say not been keen on push fittings since....

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