UK Electrical Energy Consumption & Generation

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UK Electrical Energy Consumption & Generation
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TsNeal

Joined: 03 Sep 2022
Posts: 6
Location: Yeovil

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 22 10:07 am Post subject: UK Electrical Energy Consumption & Generation

References:
https://grid.iamkate.com/
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1094628/DUKES_2022_Chapter_5.pdf

The UK Grid had an installed generating capacity of 76.6 GW in 2021: Over the past 10 years:

+ UK average energy consumption has dropped by 20% from 36.1GW to 28.8GW. (must be all those LED light bulbs!)
+ Fossil Fuel use (Coal and Gas) has dropped from 25.09GW (69.5% of supply) to 13.19GW (45.8% of supply)
+ But, we are still heavily reliant on Gas (42.4% of supply in the last year) which appears to have replaced the old coal-fired power stations as the main source of supply.

As the UK Electricity (OFGEM?) is based on the last (highest priced) MW of power to set the price, all suppliers are paid the same price as the highest cost (Gas?!) and Consumers have to pay this highest price for ALL the electricity they use!

Of course, microgeneration schemes (home solar panels, small water wheels, small prop generators) are not given the high rates; current feed in rates from electricity companies are about 10% of the rate Consumers are to be charged from October.

I feel that the OFGEM pricing system is broken and, further, major investment is needed in non-fossil fuel generation and power storage (Wind, Tidal Barrage, dare I say "small" Nuclear as per Rolls-Royce scheme).

Further, microgenerators should be paid at a % of the price it is sold at to encourage more households to become microgenerators.

Talking to our Councillor, I have discovered the local council has invested in three 1GW batteries to store /sell electricity at a profit. This seems like another opportunity for use of house batteries.

Any thoughts? Time to lobby our Councillors? MP's?

=====================================
For us, the house (excluding gas/solar hot water and gas heating) uses 4.7 kWh per day, and we import less than 50% from the grid (2.3 kWh) the balance coming from Solar panels.

We are investing in a LiFePo house battery to further reduce our use of grid electricity, which is 42% Fossil fuel based. What we are unable to avoid is the 50p per day standing charges!

Any other creative thoughts? Yes, we have a Battery Electric Vehicle...

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 22 10:28 am Post subject:
solar thermal either with pv or direct heating via a heat transfer system is plausible for warming water for domestic use the plumbing and control gear is available even a few "free" degrees on the bath and washing water can be quite a saving on high harvest days the water will be hot enough with no extra input

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6614
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 22 10:32 am Post subject: Re: UK Electrical Energy Consumption & Generation

TsNeal wrote:

As the UK Electricity (OFGEM?) is based on the last (highest priced) MW of power to set the price, all suppliers are paid the same price as the highest cost (Gas?!) and Consumers have to pay this highest price for ALL the electricity they use!

Just out of curiosity (not my grid to begin with), while this isn't good for consumers, particularly right now as you're all facing price increases, doesn't this system incentivize the development of cheap renewable generation (power producer is pocketing the difference between their cheaper supply cost and the higher set cost, right?)

It would seem to me that this system would be one you'd be in favor of, so long as there's a mechanism to periodically remove the most expensive suppliers from the overall pool. I suppose that mechanism may not exist... Maybe that's where to focus on making change? No one wants to reduce supply right now, is my guess, but perhaps it could be something like 'every 3 MW of supply to enter the pool of generation capacity allows for 1 MW of generation capacity to be banked until there are enough credits to remove the next in line of most expensive generators"

Last edited by Slim on Sun Sep 04, 22 12:07 pm; edited 2 times in total

TsNeal

Joined: 03 Sep 2022
Posts: 6
Location: Yeovil

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 22 10:47 am Post subject:

dpack wrote:

solar thermal either with pv or direct heating via a heat transfer system is plausible for warming water for domestic use

the plumbing and control gear is available

even a few "free" degrees on the bath and washing water can be quite a saving

on high harvest days the water will be hot enough with no extra input

We use a myenergi Eddi to heat our hot water from Solar (approx 1420 kWh per year) using intelligent spare generation capacity. This covers our hot water for approx 330-340 days a year (Solar generation dependent)

For house heating, heat transfer systems are a possibility, but air source heat pumps are very noisy (in a residential setting) and we do not have the land, in a housing estate, for a ground source pump.

At the moment, we are left with the option of minimising gas energy use rather than replacing it; Electricity is simply too expensive (even with overnight cheap rate) and that leaves, better insulation, and the investment made in the best efficiency boiler available - this alone has cut our Gas use by 30%.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 22 11:18 am Post subject:
I really need to look into solar thermal - particularly as am part way there - have the thermal store with extra coil - it's a matter of understanding what I need and working out who to trust in terms of supplier. And finding a plumber that understands and is willing to work with the fact we have a back boiler also... mostly though, am frozen by not understanding how to take the next step

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6614
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 22 11:30 am Post subject:

Solar thermal doesn't make sense for installing new here, but that's because we have net metering and it makes more sense to just use the solar space to produce PV power and use those power credits for a heat pump water heater... Not sure how far off the UK situation is from that, but installing solar thermal "ain't nothing" in terms of added complexity and places for things to go wrong (plus potentially looking like a pain to deal with for potential buyers should you aim to sell house)

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 22 11:41 am Post subject:

TsNeal wrote:

dpack wrote:

We use a myenergi Eddi to heat our hot water from Solar (approx 1420 kWh per year) using intelligent spare generation capacity. This covers our hot water for approx 330-340 days a year (Solar generation dependent)
For house heating, heat transfer systems are a possibility, but air source heat pumps are very noisy (in a residential setting) and we do not have the land, in a housing estate, for a ground source pump.

At the moment, we are left with the option of minimising gas energy use rather than replacing it; Electricity is simply too expensive (even with overnight cheap rate) and that leaves, better insulation, and the investment made in the best efficiency boiler available - this alone has cut our Gas use by 30%.

or warm to be more accurate

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 22 2:04 pm Post subject:

Slim wrote:

....plus potentially looking like a pain to deal with for potential buyers should you aim to sell house)

this is a significant part of the decision making. It is all very well that you might get your capital cost returned in X number of years, but that only works if you plan to stay in your house that long or if you can realistically expect to get that money back on your house sale, and according to MSE, solar panels wont increase the value of the property by much. I have heard it said that people that are keen on renewable energy systems tend to prefer a house without it installed so they can put in the system they prefer.

I honestly don't know I will be in my home long enough to recoup the costs of installing

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6614
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 22 2:25 pm Post subject:

I think that was more the dynamic previously, but nowadays on this side of the pond, PV panels tend to add sale value. PV is pretty much a static, with virtually no maintenance. It's there or isn't, and it's generating or it isn't. While that's sort of also true of solar thermal, it's typically more house penetrations that can leak, may need more upkeep and maintenance, and takes up physical space indoors, relative to just an electric water heater. (Nicky's situation being fairly rare that you already have a storage tank with heat exchanger in place. Solar thermal probably makes more sense if you already have that much setup)

TsNeal

Joined: 03 Sep 2022
Posts: 6
Location: Yeovil

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 22 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: UK Electrical Energy Consumption & Generation

Slim wrote:

Just out of curiosity (not my grid to begin with), while this isn't good for consumers, particularly right now as you're all facing price increases, doesn't this system incentive the development of cheap renewable generation (power producer is pickering the difference between their cheaper supply cost and the higher set cost, right?)

It would seem to me that this system would be one you'd be in favor of, so long as there's a mechanism to periodically remove the most expensive suppliers from the overall pool. I suppose that mechanism may not exist... Maybe that's where to focus on making change? No one wants to reduce supply right now, is my guess, but perhaps it could be something like 'everything 3 MW of supply to enter the pool of generation capacity allows for 1 MW of generation capacity to be banked until there are enough credits to remove the next in line for most expensive generators"

The market driving investment is one to favour. I feel that there are several factors that inhibit investment.
1. The current UK grid generating capacity is currently over subscribed with 76GW of generating capacity and a demand of approx 30GW. There is already spare capacity available that is not being mobilised; is it coal? Even more expensive than gas? or are the generators choosing to use gas fired stations to maximise return on investment in other areas?

2. the incentive to invest in new additional capacity will rely on a medium / long term business case, based on the current very high electricity prices (i.e. uncertainty about future prices to support investment)

3. I agree that electricity price does favour investment (which takes years to come online) and the new Nuclear stations at Hinkley point (and possibly Sizewell) are cases in point. But the costs for these are enormous, with lead times in decades rather than years. An innovative, inexpensive, quick solution is needed.

4. With the current pricing strategy, there is an opportunity to misuse the system, using high-priced generators to bid up the overall price and increase the profits for more efficient, lower cost capacity.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45676
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 22 6:42 am Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

I really need to look into solar thermal - particularly as am part way there - have the thermal store with extra coil - it's a matter of understanding what I need and working out who to trust in terms of supplier. And finding a plumber that understands and is willing to work with the fact we have a back boiler also...
mostly though, am frozen by not understanding how to take the next step

I wouldn't bother with solar thermal, it needs maintenance. PV on the other hand can be used to heat your cylinder via the immersion coil and when you can afford it also feed into a battery

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16006

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 22 6:53 am Post subject:

I didn't realise that the UK market had that much spare capacity. I thought that at peak demand it was pushing it a bit, so if we have a very cold winter we could end up with lack of power, assuming people can afford to heat their homes.

Having been through the rolling power cuts of the 1970s, we have always tried to be as independent as possible. We have a wood fired stove in the lounge that heats that room and keeps the chill off the rest of the house, and has a flat top so can be used for cooking. We also have candles available.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 22 7:29 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

I wouldn't bother with solar thermal, it needs maintenance. PV on the other hand can be used to heat your cylinder via the immersion coil and when you can afford it also feed into a battery

as pv panels are now more efficient and cost effective, pv to direct immersion heating via wires is probably better than a solar heat exchange system

is there kit that will do immersion heating at panel voltage to avoid inverter losses etc?
i am very out of date on such kit

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 22 8:56 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

I wouldn't bother with solar thermal, it needs maintenance. PV on the other hand can be used to heat your cylinder via the immersion coil and when you can afford it also feed into a battery

interesting. making my own electric would probably be more useful than hot water - as I do already have the means to make that via the back boiler. Still the question of whether I would stay living here long enough to make it financially sensible.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 22 8:59 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

Having been through the rolling power cuts of the 1970s, we have always tried to be as independent as possible. We have a wood fired stove in the lounge that heats that room and keeps the chill off the rest of the house, and has a flat top so can be used for cooking. We also have candles available.

yes, this is why we put in the wood fired esse. I have a little woodburner in the living room too that I haven't used in ages, but am getting refurbished as I want to future proof as much as possible.

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