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Penelope Anderson



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 326
Location: london
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 06 2:25 pm    Post subject: Water shortages Reply with quote
    

In a panic because of projected water shortages, esp in the south east, and eventually all over - shouldn't someone be thinking very seriously about de-salination plants? There is going to be lots of sea water and, apres Coleridge "Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink."

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45672
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 06 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Desalination? Thats a lunacy whilst (e.g.) Thames is losing over 25% of its water in transmission, thank god they didn't get consent to build a desalination plant (hugely energy intensive) on the Thames.

Jb



Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 7761
Location: 91� N
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 06 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Unfortunately its also true that lot of the water shortages are also due to poor management, not on the part of the water companies themselves but simply because of the conditions forced upon them by government and public pressure.

In the south east it has been an unusually dry year. More accurately over the last year there has been about 88% of average annual rainfall. However 88% of rainfall is not a drought. Over the last two years there has been 96% of average annual rainfall. Meanwhile at the same time population pressure and government are building over as much of the countyside as possible and, more significantly spending a fortune on flood control with the express intention of getting rid of as much water as quickly as possible.

If someone so desparately wants to live on a flood plain then they should buy a boat and not a house and a dam!

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 06 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I haven't heard much of the plans for a water grid lately.
There's plenty of water nationally, just not where the people are!

Water is a big omission from the Prescott "'Sustainable' Communities" scheme for building loads of extra housing in the South East...

Which reminds me, water butts...

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 06 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Desalination is very expensive to operate and there are plenty of options in the short term such as leak reduction (customer and company) - water efficiency and improved management of resources.

Medium to long term, if the housebuilding prg goes ahead, transfers from other regions are more likely, a sort of national grid. There is plenty of water, sometimes it's not in the right places.

Periodic droughts are to be expected and it would be a very wealthy nation that planned to meet all demands all the time. Bizarely it's no the hot summers that cause the problem its dry winters. Our reservoirs should be over 90% now but are at 85%. We should be OK though.

February is the driest month in the year.

Blue Peter



Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 06 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dougal wrote:
I haven't heard much of the plans for a water grid lately.
There's plenty of water nationally, just not where the people are!

Water is a big omission from the Prescott "'Sustainable' Communities" scheme for building loads of extra housing in the South East...

Which reminds me, water butts...


I take it that it's John Prescott rather than water which has reminded you of them


Peter.

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 06 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Behemoth wrote:
February is the driest month in the year.


All manner of statistics and maps here:
https://www.metoffice.com/climate/uk/averages/index.html

Seems in the South, April and June are just a little bit drier than February, but it is indeed rather a dry month...

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46220
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 06 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

bit harsh but true ,many millions of people have never had access to clean water ,they have no prospect of access to clean water .
even if it is very hot you only need 5 litres per day .in britain at this time of year 2.5 litres .
how much do you want ?

oldhibberd



Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 06 11:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Water shortages Reply with quote
    

Penelope Anderson wrote:
In a panic because of projected water shortages, esp in the south east, and eventually all over - shouldn't someone be thinking very seriously about de-salination plants? There is going to be lots of sea water and, apres Coleridge "Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink."


I think I'm right in saying de-salination plants are huge energy gobblers. More C02 anyone?

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 06 12:04 am    Post subject: Re: Water shortages Reply with quote
    

Penelope Anderson wrote:
shouldn't someone be thinking very seriously about de-salination plants?

Simple answer: No.

Desalination plants do use lots of energy. The water they produce is expensive. In money and in energy.
A cheaper and less intrusive solution would be to transport water from those parts of the UK with lots of rainfall to those parts with lots of people. The most sensible scheme would appear to be to connect the various water regions with significant pipe and pump capacity. This has long been proposed, but I'm not sure what the current progress towards a "national water grid" might be. In case of urgency, tanker ships could transport water from one end of the country to the other. (Malta relies on water supplied by tanker.) However, we would seem to be a very, very long way away from that need.

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 06 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Penelope's post obviously prompted the Govt Minister to do something. .....

Drought in the south east � Minister urges �use water sensibly now�

Environment and Climate Change Minister Elliot Morley today urged consumers, businesses and water companies to be mindful of their own role in preventing a serious water shortage in the south east.

Mr Morley said:

�People will remember the hosepipe bans of last summer, when low rainfall was a cause for concern. Six months on some of those bans are still in effect as the dry winter adds to pressure on the water supply. Speculation this week about the prospect of serious drought across the region is not misplaced.

�Emergency measures, such as the use of standpipes, aren�t inevitable this summer however if we take steps now to ensure that we are using water sensibly.

�No single body can make this happen. It is not simply down to the water companies, or to Government, or to consumers, to take action. Only a joint effort from every one of us to understand what we can do, and then do it, will reduce the risk of shortages should this period of low rainfall extend to the summer.

�Consumers and businesses can telephone water companies or visit their websites for advice on making more efficient use of their water. This doesn�t mean draconian cutbacks, but common sense ways of ensuring water isn�t just wasted.

�Action by consumers must be matched by action from water companies, and I am expecting water companies to use the range of options set out in their Drought Plans to maximise efficiency and minimise disruption to supply.

�In England and Wales companies have achieved nearly a 30% reduction in leakage since 1994, which equates to the amount of water consumed by 10 million people. Consumers and businesses can help water companies make further reductions by reporting visible leaks. But some companies missed their targets last year, and their performance has to improve. They are reminded that their customers will expect them to demonstrate an improvement in leakage rates as one of the measures they take before seeking a drought order.

�It is easy to hope that action taken by someone else, somewhere else, means the rest of us can continue to take our water supply for granted. The uncomfortable truth is that we cannot, and that action by every one of us in our own homes and workplaces can make a real difference.�

Mr Morley is speaking today at Source 2006, a water industry conference hosted every two years by WaterUK. The event tackles issues of sustainability, and brings together those responsible for water services with funders, regulators, and users. For a copy of Mr Morley�s conference speech telephone 020 7238 6751 or email [email protected].

Notes to editors
1. For the second winter running we have had less rain than expected, in the south east in particular.

2. Companies rely on winter rain to top up reservoirs rivers and groundwater, which is where they obtain our tapwater. In the south east some 70% of the public supply is from groundwater, which generally takes longer to recharge than a reservoir.

3. Drought is a natural phenomenon. Water companies have drought plans, which set out the measures needed to maintain a water supply; the companies are currently drafting new plans for submission to the Secretary of State at the end of March. The plans set out a range of measures that may be necessary to maintain a supply under different drought intensities. Measures include advertising; hose pipe bans, applications for drought permits (to increase abstraction) and drought orders (to restrict non essential uses � watering of parks and golf courses, filling of private swimming pools, for example)

4. The use of stand pipes can only be sanctioned by the Secretary of State under an emergency drought order.

5. Leakage figures for England and Wales are published annually in the Ofwat �Security of supply, leakage and the efficient use of water� reports. Total industry leakage for 1994/95 was reported as 5112 Megalitres/day, 2004/05 was 3608 Megalitres/day. This is a reduction of 1504 Megalitres/day, or nearly 30%. Average household consumption for 2004/05 was 150 Litres/head/day, so 1504000000/150 = 10026666.67, or the average daily consumption of just over 10 million people.

6. At a time of growing pressure on water resources in some parts of the country, water industry stakeholders need to work together in practical ways to promote the efficient use of water in households. The key stakeholders have joined a new ministerially-led group, the Water Saving Group, which will define, monitor, carry out and review projects and workstreams dealing with targets, the evidence base, best practice, education and policy. The first meeting of this group was on 20 October 2005 at which members agreed an action plan.

7. Further information on drought orders and permits can be found on Defra�s website www.defra.gov.uk/environment/water/resources/drought/.

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 06 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Thursday 2 February 2006 12:33
Met Office (National)

DRY SPELL CONTINUES


England and Wales have had the driest January for almost a decade, and some parts of the UK have had less than a quarter of their average rainfall so far this year, according to Met Office figures released today.

In total England and Wales had 33.2 mm of rain throughout the month - 37% of the long-term average - making it the driest January since 1997 and the 6th driest on record.

Many areas had less than half their average January rainfall:

* The Midlands and East Anglia had only 31% of their average monthly rainfall - 22.4 mm and 15.7 mm respectively
* South East and Central Southern England had 24.8 mm of rain, 32% of the long-term average
* South West England and Southern Wales had 44.5mm, 33% of the long-term average
* Eastern and North East England had 29.4mm, 42% of the long-term average.

2005 in South East and Central Southern England was the 4th driest on record and the driest year since 1973.

Since November 2004, 13 out of the last 15 months have recorded below 1961-1990 average rainfall for South East and Central Southern England, with the worst affected areas being Hampshire, Sussex, Surrey, Middlesex and Kent, which have received around 70% of their normal rainfall.

Notes to editors.

1. In hydrological terms the 'water year' runs from October to September; with September being the time when ground water levels are expected to be at their lowest. The period from October to the end of April is the time when water levels are expected to 'recharge'. A dry winter period is more critical than a dry summer period.

2. More information of the prolonged dry spell can be found here https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/interesting/2004_2005dryspell.html

GNN ref 128113P

Penelope Anderson



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 326
Location: london
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 06 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Well, thanks, folks! I hadn't realised that desalination plants were gas guzzlers, and maybe my reaction was a bit over the top, but I was actually thinking a long way ahead, and seeing a scenario which has this happening year after year.

It's not too difficult to conserve water, but you do have to think about it first, and take a shower every second day for example, use the washing machine only when things need cleaning, pile the plates in the sink and wash them once a day instead of after every meal. Little things like that - it all adds up to a tiny piece of conservation. But everyone has to know, and care enough to act.

In some waterless Greek islands they deliver water in huge plastic balloons dragged behind boats - bears thinking about?

Oh, and well, thank you minister for your fulsome response!

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 06 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I think we should be capturing water and using it for garden use, loo flushing etc. If they insist on building houses in the South East, which has many other problems as well as the lack of water, then why not include a decent rain water holding tank plus toilets that use less water to flush?

Jb



Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 7761
Location: 91� N
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 06 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Low flush toilets are pretty standard these days and most new houses in the SE seem to be built on the assumption that you will not use the garden (hence the pathetically tiny spaces behind cramped houses). There would be a far greater saving from allowing floods to happen naturally and so replenish the ground water.

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