Solar panels at home

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Solar panels at home
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Pilsbury

Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 5645
Location: East london/Essex

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 05 4:29 pm Post subject: Solar panels at home
I read an article about this company a while ago and became quite interested in the possabilitys, as some of the site members live in more remote places i dont know if this could be of use but it is worth a look, www.solarcentury.co.uk

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 05 6:56 pm Post subject:

I know Solar Electric is Expensive.
But I'd like to know just *how* expensive it is.
There doesn't seem to be anything about costs on that website!
So, I followed Solarcentury's link to the Energy Saving Trust (grants) website where the first case study listed was this one:
https://www.est.org.uk/solar/downloads/casestudies/andrewfinnis_short.pdf
which is a Solarcentury installation.

The chap spent just short of �29k.
He got a grant that reduced his net outlay to �14,390

For that he has a very inconspicuous, utterly innocuous, and hopefully low maintainance, installation, hooked up to the grid (so no batteries, etc are included in that price), which generates - at peak - just 2.3kW.
Not quite enough to run a kettle.
This solar roof produces less than half of the power of Jerome's 15 foot diameter wind turbine
https://www.downsizer.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=72
- although I'm sure the PV roof is much more acceptable in a residential neighbourhood! And remember that solar does nothing at night...
Based on 6p/unit of electricity, the PV roof is "estimated" to save �100 a year on his electricity bills.
The investment is yielding less than 0.7% per annum. (Albeit tax free.)
Personally, I doubt he has increased the value of his house by �28k, �14k or even �5k...

To me that looks like a prospective ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY FOUR YEARS before the system pays for itself (ignoring the cost of the money as well as inflation).

How can it possibly be that the �14k would NOT been better spent on insulation or other energy efficency improvements with a better **carbon** (and cash) saving?

A more reasonable example from the same list is the Norman's where �4,500 net bought them an annual saving estimated at �65. That's ONLY a seventy year payback! Their �4,500 bought them half the generating capacity needed for an electric kettle.
https://www.est.org.uk/solar/downloads/casestudies/pearl_peter_norman.pdf

IMHO, solar PV may have some role to play in entirely off-grid installations. Out in the wilds where there is no mains. But even there, it should only be a part of the plan.

This technology is EXPENSIVE. Why? Because it uses large amounts of Silicon cells, and although the raw material (sand!) is cheap, it is fantastically energy-intensive and chemically nasty (and thus expensive) to process into photocells.

A cheapish solar water heating installation should cost around �1500 net, one third of the Norman's price, and give the same sort of cash saving - with disproportionately higher carbon savings (daytime electricity is rarely used for water heating!)

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 05 7:05 pm Post subject:
Good post Dougal, I think it'll be a long time before PV is viable in this country.

mrutty

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 1578

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 05 7:56 pm Post subject:

Now just correct me here if I'm wrong but this guy paid for 29K of solar panel. Now a foot square panel costs �80 retail so call it �100 for supply and fit. He should have ended up with 290 square foot of panels producing at worst 290 Watts and hour and in full sunshine produces 7.3kW in 5 hours.

The sums that the site produces doesn't seem to add up to the same.

It seems that the 'grant' has already been added on and then removed to me

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28233
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 05 8:09 pm Post subject:
Very interesting reading jema

Jonsey

Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Chelmsford Essex

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 05 2:57 pm Post subject: advise from a person with solar panels
I noticed a person two bungalows up with panels across the length of his roof, i asked about them and he basicly cut me short and said they are not just on the roof they are also covering the top of his garage and if he had his time again he would not bother and that they do not generate enough power. so now im now in two minds are they worth having or not.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 05 2:58 pm Post subject:
Are they PV or water heating panels?

Jonsey

Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Chelmsford Essex

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 05 8:12 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Are they PV or water heating panels?

from what he said they are for heating the water for his pool and that it is okay ish when maintaining a higher temp water heating but from cold it was no good.

hardworkinghippy

Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1110
Location: Bourrou South West France

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 05 8:43 pm Post subject:

I know it's diiferent for us because we live in the middle of nowhere and we're off the grid, but we had two more photovoltaic panels (150 watts) delivered yesterday and I am so excited!

With them, we can power more lights and be sure of having a good few hours of internet in the winter months. (No more grazed thighs, or "I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner...e-mails

"

We're very, very happy to have electricity. The cost is not much if you consider that over all the time you have it, it costs you nothing.

The most important thing to consider IMHO is the sheer, unadulterated and totally extreme pleasure you get from knowing it's clean, free, and power cuts don't stop you chatting.

HWH

Lloyd

Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 2699

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 05 9:16 pm Post subject:

Wow, good discussion!...I know of a guy who owns a big building company. He owns a bungalow next to my old house which was in a terrace. He had water heating panels put in for the bungalow, and also heating the water for two of the terraces, 3bedrooms each, and said it would pay back within 15 years. My mate lives in one of the terraces and he said the water and radiators over Christmas, were ridiculously hot.

hardworkinghippy

Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1110
Location: Bourrou South West France

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 05 9:55 pm Post subject:

I think I've mentioned this before in here, but 27 years ago when I lived in Woodford, Essex I had solar water heating panels installed by a firm called Sunharvester.

I've moved house twice since then and I'm still using the same panels. I've fixed them a few times (a simple plumbing job) but they heat the water (we live in France) here for seven or eight months of the year and in the winter pre-heat the water for the wood to take over.

HWH

nettie

Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 5888
Location: Suffolk

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 05 10:17 pm Post subject:
HWH haven't seen you in ages!!! Interesting what you are all saying about this, but it is adding to my notion that to follow your ethical and environmentally friendly dreams, you have to have a few bob in the first place.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 05 10:29 am Post subject:

Jonsey wrote:

from what he said they are for heating the water for his pool and that it is okay ish when maintaining a higher temp water heating but from cold it was no good.

I've never seen any houses your way panelled up, where is he?

I think he'd struggle to heat a pool with panels

Jonsey

Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Chelmsford Essex

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 05 12:59 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Jonsey wrote:

from what he said they are for heating the water for his pool and that it is okay ish when maintaining a higher temp water heating but from cold it was no good.

I've never seen any houses your way panelled up, where is he?

I think he'd struggle to heat a pool with panels

When you come over on saturday ill show you, oh and also the architect that drew up the plans for the loft ext he has them and says the same thing that they are not all that. maybe they have improved them since these guys had them fitted i dont know but can you see how you get conflicting storys, also a link was added above and it said that the guy had a anual saving of �100. he layed out �14700. and the other 50% added was a grant from the goverment it would end up that my childrens children would end up getting my money back if the products last that long. also how can these companys justify the price of these components when you only get a poor return, it seems you need to own a fortune to help save the planet.

judyofthewoods

Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 804
Location: Pembrokeshire

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 05 1:08 am Post subject:
[/quote] ..... it seems you need to own a fortune to help save the planet.[/quote] or a few tools, some pipe ....

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