Biodiesel course

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Andrea

Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 2260
Location: Portugal

Posted: Thu May 05, 05 8:57 pm Post subject: Biodiesel course
Has anyone done the How to Make Biodiesel course run by the Low-Impact Living Initiative? Or know of a similar course elsewhere they could recommend? Cheers, Andrea

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri May 06, 05 11:49 am Post subject:
Not as far as I know, there's always people asking about Bio Diesel but I don't think anyone's gone further down the road, have they?

Andrea

Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 2260
Location: Portugal

Posted: Fri May 06, 05 11:56 am Post subject:
Hmmm, it's allot of money to fork out for a course ....

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri May 06, 05 11:57 am Post subject:
Have you got a good local source then?

Andrea

Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 2260
Location: Portugal

Posted: Fri May 06, 05 12:02 pm Post subject:
Local to the place in Portugal! Figured I'd understand more of the course if I did it in the UK though!

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri May 06, 05 12:04 pm Post subject:
Makes sense. Sorry I can't help, I know loads of interested people but none that have done anything about it.

Bugs

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10744

Posted: Fri May 06, 05 2:23 pm Post subject:
They seem nice at LILI, perhaps you could ask them if they have feedback from past participants on what they think? Either way, will you come back and let us know how you get on? (Is that one of Cilla's lines?)

Andrea

Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 2260
Location: Portugal

Posted: Fri May 06, 05 5:59 pm Post subject:

Bugs wrote:

Either way, will you come back and let us know how you get on?

Of course. The course I've got in mind isn't till July, so don't hold your breath in the meantime mind!

Res

Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1172
Location: Allotment Shed, Harlow

Posted: Mon May 09, 05 1:33 pm Post subject:

Andrea wrote:

Bugs wrote:

Either way, will you come back and let us know how you get on?

Of course. The course I've got in mind isn't till July, so don't hold your breath in the meantime mind!

Hi Andrea,
What and where is the course that you are thinking of?

I have been interested in running a diesel car on veg oil, but really needs a little heater kit to fit to the carb somewhere to heat the oil prior to entering the engine, but was over �1000 so havn't gone any further with it.

The other idea was making up a biodigester on the allotment to run my petrol car on methane, but I think the council might take a few issues with the size of digester I would need. Maybe I will just try with a small pilot plant to see if I can get it to work first before I get any grand design ideas!!!

Haddock

Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 81
Location: Marburg, Germany

Posted: Mon May 09, 05 2:02 pm Post subject:

Mercedes Diesel cars will run on Sunflower Oil. Saw a guy at Aldi supermarket *Fill up* in the car park. Apparently there's a Taxi in Berlin has been running on the stuff for a few years. Spoke to people at work who inform me that some cars dont need modifications to run on Sunflower or Rapeseed oil.
Some petrol stations here in Germany sell Bio-diesel at the pump. Its a lot cheaper than ordinary deisel.

Bugs

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10744

Posted: Mon May 09, 05 2:13 pm Post subject:
In the car park? You mean he literally walked in, bought a few gallons of oil, tipped some of it in to his car and took the rest home to make chips? (Obviously you don't know all those details unless you're really, really scary, but you get my point..no modification at all?). Isn't that rather good or am I missing something? Do you know how much/how practical it is to run those cars?

Haddock

Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 81
Location: Marburg, Germany

Posted: Mon May 09, 05 2:25 pm Post subject:
The guy bought a trolley load of sunflower oil and poured it into his feul tank in the supermarket car park. Just rang a mate at work and apparently older Mercedes models need NO modifications, but all other cars do......and for some reason Volkswagon cars dont run very well on Sunflower oil. My mate will try and find a website about this, but it will probably be in German.

Res

Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1172
Location: Allotment Shed, Harlow

Posted: Mon May 09, 05 3:24 pm Post subject:

The site I was looking at was https://www.dieselveg.com/benefits.htm
You do have to pay duty on the oil you buy to run the car on though, but don't have the details.

I was aware that some cars don't need modifications and the diesel engine was originally designed by Mr Diesel to run on veg oil, but Mr petrolium though it would be a better idea to sell us the by-product of petrol refining!

Last edited by Res on Mon May 09, 05 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Mon May 09, 05 3:49 pm Post subject:

Woooaaa there!

1/ Good old Herr Diesel did invent his engine specifically to run on veg oil. But there was no conspiracy, and no petroleum company bought up any rights and forced the use of "a by-product of petrol refining". Damn all goes to waste in refining, because different products can be made by "cracking", and adjusting the proportions of the various "fractions".
2/ Automotive *engineering* development went towards using a thinner, more runny fuel (giving fairly easy starting) - while big marine diesels run on very 'heavy' bunkers oil (they might only start once or twice a year...) You may have noticed that diesel fuel is quite a bit more runny than cooking oil.
3/ You can *make* a perfectly good imitation of automotive extra low sulphur diesel out of veg oil - it is loosely called biodiesel. (Note - 'old' diesel vehicles may have *natural* rubber joints, seals, parts in their fuel systems that react badly with ULS diesel *and* biodiesel.)
4/ Many diesel engines will *run* on veg oil. (Especially if it can be warmed up a bit to make it more runny.) But its a bugger to *start* them. Most particularly when its cold, like in winter, when its not runny at all. That's why there are kits that allow the engine to start on fossil diesel, and once running use the engine coolant to warm the veg oil, before changing over to run on veg.
5/ Older, more "agricultural" engine designs would be expected to be more tolerant of a less runny fuel. Its the high pressure pumps and the injectors that are the problem. The latest designs (eg the PD engines from VW) are pretty high tech precision engineering.
5/ In the UK, **any** *fuel* used in an ordinary road vehicle is subject to tax. Biodiesel is specifically taxed less than fossil diesel. If you want to break the law, try running on 'red' heating oil. The penalties for that would be the same as running on veg oil without paying tax. Customs and Excise are responsible for collecting the duty, you need to check with them about paying it. (Veg and biodiesel both produce a somewhat characteristic slightly "chip shop" smelling exhaust.)
6/ Biodiesel is veg oil that has been chemically treated *specifically* to make it a better fuel for road vehicles. There's no starting problems, it gives a 'cleaner' exhaust (less particulate pollution), and better mpg than simple veg oil. BUT old designs may not like it because of it causing swelling of natural rubber. Newer vehicles (by EU directive) must be ULS Diesel (and hence biodiesel) tolerant (typically using Viton instead of natural rubber).
7/ If you run your engine on a fuel that is not certified compliant with the relevant standards (ie veg oil or *homebrew* biodiesel) you are certainly invalidating any warranties.
8/ Using 'waste' cooking oil as feedstock for homebrewing biodiesel is likely to be rather cheaper than fresh oil, but requires very careful filtration...

Res

Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1172
Location: Allotment Shed, Harlow

Posted: Mon May 09, 05 4:11 pm Post subject:

Sorry Dougal,

Yes you are right re. conspiracy, I was getting a bit carried away there, but the by-product was sold as a cheaper alternative to veg oil.

You have to register as your own licenced fuel supplier and pay 27.1p per ltr of oil you use.

There is a DIY kit for running on veg oil (rapeseed is said to be best) for around �475 but is not for all cars, so check on site for vehicle compatibililty and for different options.

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