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Milo



Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 342
Location: Oop North-ish.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 05 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I shall not cease from mental strife,

Nor shall my spade cease in my hand

'Til we have filled with artichokes

All England's green and pleasant land..............




Rob,

On population...........

The solution is in our hands by Jeremy Rifkin, author of Beyond Beef: The Rise and Fall of the Cattle Culture (Plume, 1992), and The Biotech Century (Victor Gollancz, 1998).

He is also the president of the Foundation on Economic Trends in Washington DC, USA. https://www.foet.org/JeremyRifkin.htm (Dodgy moustache alert).

In the US 157 million tons of cereals, legumes and vegetable protein � all suitable for human consumption � is fed to livestock to produce just 28 million tons of animal protein in the form of meat.

In developing countries, using land to create an artificial food chain has resulted in misery for hundreds of millions of people. An acre of cereal produces five times more protein than an acre used for meat production; legumes such as beans, peas and lentils can produce 10 times more protein and, in the case of soya, 30 times more.

Human consequences of the shift from food to feed were dramatically illustrated during the Ethiopian famine in 1984. While people starved, Ethiopia was growing linseed cake, cottonseed cake and rapeseed meal for European livestock. Millions of acres of land in the developing world are used for this purpose. Tragically, 80 per cent of the world�s hungry children live in countries with food surpluses which are fed to animals for consumption by the affluent.

The global population is set to rise from 6.1 billion (2002) to 9.3 billion by 2050 (1) (How old will you / your children be?), and Worldwatch reports (3) forecast severe global food shortages leading to famine on an unprecedented scale.

The fast growth of the world's population is a serious problem because it means there are more mouths to feed, resulting in more pressure on water, land, wildlife and so on. By 2050, the 49 least-developed countries will nearly triple in size, from 668 million to 1.86 billion people (1). By 2050, today�s developing countries will account for over 85 per cent of the world population (1).

However, although this makes the hunger problem worse, it does not actually cause it. It is the growth of incomes and demand for 'luxury' items in rich countries that have triggered the hunger crisis. The world is a much wealthier place today than it was 40 years ago and as wages have risen they have encouraged large-scale meat eating in richer countries, heightening the competition for cereals between animals and humans.

A huge �consumption gap� exists between industrialised and developing countries. The world�s richest countries, with 20 per cent of global population, account for 86 per cent of total private consumption, whereas the poorest 20 per cent of the world�s people account for just 1.3 per cent.

A child born today in an industrialised country will add more to consumption and pollution over his or her lifetime than 30 to 50 children born in developing countries. (2)

The decline in world fish stocks, the erosion of agricultural land and the limits of technology to boost grain yields mean we are fast approaching the limit of resources and the earth's carrying capacity. We need to rethink the way limited supplies of plant food are distributed and start feeding the world.

Eating meat is not the only reason for world hunger, but it is a major cause. We must drastically change our eating habits if we are to feed the world adequately. People are going hungry while ever increasing numbers of animals are fed huge amounts of food in a hopelessly inefficient system.

By not using animals as meat producing machines, this food could be freed to help those that need it most. Veganism, (he says vegetarianism) by using up far less of the world�s resources of food, land water and energy, is a positive step that we can all easily take to help feed people in poorer countries.



1. World Population Prospects: The 2000 Revision. United Nations Population Division.
2. Footprints and Milestones: Population and Environmental Change, United Nations Population Fund, 2001
3. Brown, L., Full House, Worldwatch Inst. 1994

ele



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 814
Location: Derby
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 05 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

From my understanding it just can't ever be a case of either/or. Sometimes it is more appropriate/efficient to get calories from crops sometimes animal products.

Or to put it another way, why for example does oxfam supply families with goats and cows to help people feed their families/fertilise their crops if veganism is the solution to world hunger?

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 05 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Milo wrote:

Rob,

On population...........


In the US 157 million tons of cereals, legumes and vegetable protein � all suitable for human consumption � is fed to livestock to produce just 28 million tons of animal protein in the form of meat.




All very well, but I have never advocated the feeding of cattle with grain to produce meat. Population cannot continue to rise beyond the world's resources & still maintain the biodiversity we need for a healthy planet, be we meat eaters or vegans. We need a healthy balance in this world, that is what I do advocate.

Milo



Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 342
Location: Oop North-ish.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 05 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Quote:
Population cannot continue to rise beyond the world's resources & still maintain the biodiversity we need for a healthy planet, be we meat eaters or vegans.

Agreed. With an exchange rate of 28:157 (what's that as a percentage?), I'd say it can't even stay at this level, or even quite significantly reduce & still maintain the biodiversity we need for a healthy planet.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46362
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 06 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

uh what ?

Milo



Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 342
Location: Oop North-ish.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 06 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

In other words:

With an "exchange rate" of 28 million tons of farmed meat : 157 million tons of non-meat food suitable for human consumption, there appears to be a dire need to reduce human population,

OR ELSE

a dire need to drastically reduce the human consumption of farmed meat.

Northern_Lad



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 14210
Location: Somewhere
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 06 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Milo wrote:
a dire need to drastically reduce the human consumption of farmed meat.


I don't think you'll get many people arguing with that here - one of the objectives of this forum is to promote responsible attitudes towards the environment.
When (if) the masses start to call for the end to all battery farming things will improve.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46362
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 06 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

squeeze the problem from both ends .reduce population and the demands of that population . nature may well take the inititive , it has in the past . choice of type of farmed flesh is a factor with an aprox 500% variation in resouces required , per unit flesh , between beef and chicken for instance .insects are very efficient at turning plant material into high grade protien and fat but dont seem popular in europe and north america , i find some a delicacy but the uugh factor would make it hard to sell grubs and locusts in our local butchers . if i was hungry i would not be looking for a cow but would badger into rotten logs . the problem is both population size and expectaion .malthus may well save the planet as might education and action . breed and consume are hard wired into humans but we have the abilty to overide that ,if we do our few decendants will be rich beyond imagination .

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