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northcotes4

Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 1:34 pm Post subject:

I have 2 kids, and only run the dishwasher once at approx 3am in the morning, use a plug in timer. This means it is run on Economy 7 electric.

Depending on how dirty the pots and pans are which also go in to make the full load I sometimes only use the Eco cycle with just the water - no detergent or only half measure of detergent.

I do not use rinseaid only white vinegar, and when have extra dirty pots etc make up to full measure with soda crystals; this is also the only time I use the rinse cycle first.

This works well for me.

If I didn't use the dishwasher I would be having at least 4 sink fuls of hot water every day and then the rinsing as well.

tawny owl

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 563
Location: Hampshire

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 2:39 pm Post subject:

I never rinse anything unless it's been used for something really starchy like pasta or if there's something actually burned on. Otherwise everything gets bunged in, pans etc on the bottom, more lightly soiled stuff on top. If anything comes out with marks on, I'll wash it then, but they are few and far between. I never bother using the rinse cycle either; there are only two of us, but we still end up using it at least every 2 days. I throw in my dishcloth, scouring sponges etc as well, so I don't have to use a hot wash cycle in the washing machine for them.

If you use 3-in-1 tablets, you shouldn't need salt or rinse aid, as they're already incorporated, in much smaller amounts than if you use them separately, so that cuts down on stuff going down the drain. In fact, if you use salt with the products, you can get glass corrosion.

Have a really good look round before you buy, and don't be afraid to look inside the machines. Try to get one with as much metal inside as possible - in particular, try to ensure that the filter mesh (the flat one that sits at the bottom that the cylindrical one goes into) is metal; the plastic ones perish really quickly with the heat, and if that breaks, you'll get bits of food in the washing arms and the machine won't wash properly. Smeg is a good make, and that's got a double arm on the bottom. Miele and Bosch are worth looking at too. I woudn't recommend Indesit or Candy, but maybe others have had different experiences with them.

Good article here: https://money.guardian.co.uk/ethicalliving/story/0,13437,1215683,00.html

Mrs Fiddlesticks

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 10460

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 2:49 pm Post subject:

i think its one of those trade off things. I have a dishwasher because I have better things to do than wash-up. Its run at night on economy dooda and its usually full everynight. I think it washes more hygenically and my kitchen is cleaner as a result as all dirty dishes are hidden away in it. I run a rinse and hold programe if hot to avoid pongs and have never had a problem. I do tend to bung everything in it though. It certainly helps me do more downsizery things if I know there is help with all the clearing up afterwards. So trade off. Can't win them all and don't realistically have time to do it all. I wonder why we don't question washing machines in the same way as we do dishwashers?

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 3:01 pm Post subject:

tawny owl wrote:

If you use 3-in-1 tablets, you shouldn't need salt or rinse aid, as they're already incorporated, in much smaller amounts than if you use them separately, so that cuts down on stuff going down the drain. In fact, if you use salt with the products, you can get glass corrosion.

On recent machines you can program in the local water hardness. And they adjust the salt/softening to suit - even to the extent of using salt in addition to what the 3/4-in-one tablets provide.
Excess salt (eg spilt when refilling), if left unattended, can/will cause corrosion of *stainless* steel (especially hardened knife blades). Not glass.
The salt is used for regenerating the water softener, not for washing in salty water (thats unhelpful - try shampooing with seawater!). The tablets "salt" is actually a different means of water softening.
AFAIK the glass etching that used to be common with dishwashers is down to the "detergent" mix - not for nothing do they say "avoid skin contact". I believe newer formulations are much less damaging.

tawny owl

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 563
Location: Hampshire

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 3:24 pm Post subject:

dougal wrote:

AFAIK the glass etching that used to be common with dishwashers is down to the "detergent" mix - not for nothing do they say "avoid skin contact". I believe newer formulations are much less damaging.

Yup, he's right, I'm wrong! Funny how Finish denied for years that this was a problem and then brought out a 'glass protection' formula ...

Rï¿½isï¿½n

Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 578

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 05 8:39 am Post subject:

I think we don't question washing machines in the same way because we are more used to them, whereas we've probably all been brought up to handwash dishes because dishwashers didn't exist!

I'm curious about the tablets - some people seem to be saying that half a tablet will do in place of a whole. Is this only on a lightly soiled cycle? And, in much the same way as people can make their own washing detergent for the washing machine, can you make your own dishwasher detergent?

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28235
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 05 8:57 am Post subject:

Rï¿½isï¿½n wrote:

I have been wondering about this myself. I wonder what the results with simple soap flakes and vingiar as rinse aid would be?

Rï¿½isï¿½n

Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 578

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 05 9:36 am Post subject:
But how to make them into tablet form? On my dishwasher, at least, there is no drawer for powder or anything like that, just a little tablety-shaped alcove with a drawer that opens a bit of the way into the wash and drops it.

Rï¿½isï¿½n

Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 578

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 05 9:36 am Post subject:
don't know why that double posted Last edited by Rï¿½isï¿½n on Sun Jul 31, 05 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total

Gertie

Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1638
Location: Yorkshire

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 05 9:39 am Post subject:
Our little dishwasher is used every day, unfortunately last year the little thingy which opens to release the tablet broke, just stick the tablet in the cutlery basket now. It works! Hoorah for the dishwasher - I hated washing plates and having to dry them - purely from a hygiene point of view, of course!

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28235
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 05 9:43 am Post subject:

Rï¿½isï¿½n wrote:

But how to make them into tablet form? On my dishwasher, at least, there is no drawer for powder or anything like that, just a little tablety-shaped alcove with a drawer that opens a bit of the way into the wash and drops it.

Our has that before, but I see no problem with putting powder in it.

Rï¿½isï¿½n

Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 578

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 05 9:45 am Post subject:
Ye are absolutely right. toddles off to experiment with washing powders and dishwashers Will post how I get on!

puffedpride

Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 300
Location: bristol

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 06 11:13 pm Post subject:

Hate to pour cold water on this 'in praise of dishwashers thread', but are you accounting for the substantial initial outlay of resources and pollution in the manufacture and distribution of these things? I've read that 25-50% of a car's total lifelong environmental impact is in its production. Could dishwashers have similarly proportionate production 'costs'? If so, surely they would need to be considerably more efficient than washing up to environmentally compare well.

(People only get them extra to having the sink too, not instead of - so it is not as though you could subtract the energy cost of sink manufacture from the dishwasher's.) Oh dear.....was that last bit clear as mud??!!

Anyone agree? (There is probably a thread about this already in the deepest entrails of downsizer somewhere.............)

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28235
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 06 12:35 am Post subject:
I am inclined to the view that used sensibly on the eco cycle, the issue with dishwashers pales against the use of cars, food miles and no end of other things.

pricey

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 6444

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 06 1:07 am Post subject:
We feed 5 adults + 3 kids every day, dishwasher is a lot more economical than 5 bowls of hot water + detergent, I've done the maths!

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