BBC Breakfast News Story about Recycling

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BBC Breakfast News Story about Recycling
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cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 10:00 am Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

My point on ABS was that it's a fantastic innovation that hasn't immediately cornered the market.

But in your standardised car world, it would.

Quote:

What we seem to be converging on is that many of these innovations that benefit the environment are stymied by market forces and the fact that environmentally damaging products are cheaper to produce and sell, and have the benefit of an existing volume market.

It seems that more environmental legislation is the only way forward. Hopefully it could be in the form of short term support.

There isn't any evidence that any major political party in the UK take any of this seriously anyway. Ought we consider direct pressure on the European parliament?

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 10:22 am Post subject:
I'm less hopeful that the EU parliament will do anything than I am that our government will.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45670
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 10:25 am Post subject:
Legislation on either a local or European level is the only way we're going to move forward in the short term on waste reduction and energy efficiency in this country

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 10:40 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Legislation on either a local or European level is the only way we're going to move forward in the short term on waste reduction and energy efficiency in this country

I agree, but it's still a minority issue, despite it's effect on the entire population.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45670
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 10:43 am Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

tahir wrote:

Legislation on either a local or European level is the only way we're going to move forward in the short term on waste reduction and energy efficiency in this country

I agree, but it's still a minority issue, despite it's effect on the entire population.

Absolutely, my little bruv has just bought a car that averages 22mpg, even though I spoke to him about alternatives and the fact that he can't actually drive it (legally) to anywhere near it's capabilities in the real world. There's many more of them than there is of us, that's why legislation is essential, this needs to go hand in hand with an increase in fuel costs and proper taxation on aviation fuel

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 10:53 am Post subject:
Catch 22, How do we introduce legislation in a democracy when the majority don't support it?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45670
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 10:55 am Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

Catch 22, How do we introduce legislation in a democracy when the majority don't support it?

Happens everyday, we don't vote on every bit of legislation that is introduced, we trust our elected representatives to do the right thing.

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 10:59 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Jonnyboy wrote:

Catch 22, How do we introduce legislation in a democracy when the majority don't support it?

Happens everyday, we don't vote on every bit of legislation that is introduced, we trust our elected representatives to do the right thing.

But as said earlier, none of the main parties are taking this seriously. As a minority how can we effect change?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45670
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 11:06 am Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

But as said earlier, none of the main parties are taking this seriously. As a minority how can we effect change?

Sometimes vocal minorities (see fundamentalist muslims) have an impact WAY beyond what you'd expect, I think places like this are a good start, if we move only one person to become more deeply involved in the political structures that can enable such legislation then that's a start.

bagpuss

Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 11:23 am Post subject:
Here is another suggestion which is kind of related but not really about recycling This is from my mothers OH who has suggested that all new build houses should be forced to have a small wind turbine and some solar cells to provide at least 25% of there electricity This should reduce demand on our existing infrastructure and also improve matters when the coal and oil runs out

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45670
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 11:26 am Post subject:

bagpuss wrote:

This is from my mothers OH who has suggested that all new build houses should be forced to have a small wind turbine and some solar cells to provide at least 25% of there electricity

Just an increase in insulation and airtightness in new builds could cut energy demands substantially, an obligation to invest in renewables too would be brilliant, both are a long way off (in the UK at least)

bagpuss

Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 11:31 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

I think my mums full list included not only power sources but also triple glazing and proper insulation

I think their main premise was that if it is insisted on at the first build stage it is a lot cheaper than doing it after the fact

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45670
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 11:36 am Post subject:

bagpuss wrote:

tahir wrote:

I think my mums full list included not only power sources but also triple glazing and proper insulatation

The AECB (www.aecb.net) are involved in drafting the next generation of building regs but it's a long and extremely slow process and from what I've heard will probably bypass the current spate of building mania in the UK

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 11:37 am Post subject:

bagpuss wrote:

Here is another suggestion which is kind of related but not really about recycling

This is from my mothers OH who has suggested that all new build houses should be forced to have a small wind turbine and some solar cells to provide at least 25% of there electricity

This should reduce demand on our existing infrastructure and also improve matters when the coal and oil runs out

I would certainly go for some kind of system where a combination of environmentally friendly products must be utilised. So if solar or wind power wasn�t practical you would get a benefit for using recycled materials or geothermal heating for example.

New builds are zero vat rated so your rebate could be related to how environmentally friendly your build is.

I know that the insulation on our house is far, far better than it used to be. We seem to have stuff rammed in everywhere. Even the beads in the cavity wall have a heat reflective coating.

tawny owl

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 563
Location: Hampshire

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 05 3:44 pm Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

What I'm saying in both cases is the commercial realities get in the way, an eco light bulb is a fantastic innovation, but people don't care enough to fit them in their houses.

I think that's a little unfair. They [i]are[/i} expensive, and quite a number of them don't seem to be very good: they take ages to warm up to any sort of light, and even when they do, it's still quite poor; they're usually bigger (some a lot bigger) than a normal bulb, which means they won't fit some light fittings; and the early ones at least used to blow after a very short life, and when you consider they were costing 6/7 quid, you can't really blame people for not trying them again.

I have tried several different types, and I'm sorry, but I just can't hack the crap light that they all seem to give out., perhaps because I have bad sight anyway, but I get eyestrain and headaches after a very short while. Most of my lights are now halogen, and as they're only 20/30 watt, I think that's still doing my bit.

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