Fish- what are we buying in the supermarket?

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Fish- what are we buying in the supermarket?
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tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 05 8:52 am Post subject:

Dougal

Agree with you on the mollusc side of things, mussells, oysters etc are much better farmed than caught.

When it comes to fish the picture is less clear and I reckon the only farmed fish I'd be happy eating is the organic trout that someone farms in their watercress beds (can't remember where). All farmed fish need quite large inputs, a lot of the inputs are wasted completely (just fall through the cage, and comprise mainly fish meal which is harvested with little regard for sustainability.

Some farmed fish such as sea bass rely largely on wild harvested fry which is obviously a far from ideal way of farming them, tuna is also farmed, again from wild harvested juvenile fish....

The most "appealing" farmed fish I suppose are the turbot and halibut systems where there is no chance of escapees and the waste is much less as they're reared in tanks on land.

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 05 8:56 am Post subject:

Quote:

I suppose what I was trying to get at is that one does need to be informed - you can't make simple generalisations, even that farmed = bad. Indeed for 'proper' shellfish (molluscs? - mussels, clams, scallops, oysters...) farmed seems to be generally preferable on environmental and sustainability grounds.

I'm not convinced that it is the case. Certainly where fish farming is concerned the environmental damage is well documented, it's a moot point whether we should be eating badly farmed fish or consuming pressurised wild stocks - we should be doing neither.

I'm not sure about shellfish farming, will have to look into it a bit more, but as they are filter feeders I assume that sustainable water quality is a far greater priority.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 05 8:59 am Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

I'm not sure about shellfish farming, will have to look into it a bit more, but as they are filter feeders I assume that sustainable water quality is a far greater priority.

From my understanding I believe that most mollusc farming in the UK relies on little or no inputs and is carried out quite sustainably

judith

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 05 9:18 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

From my understanding I believe that most mollusc farming in the UK relies on little or no inputs and is carried out quite sustainably

Thank heaven for that! I really don't want to have to give up my Conwy mussels from the fishmonger.
If anyone is going to say anything to the contrary, please warn me and I shall put my fingers in my ears and say "la, la, la" in a loud voice

crackapple

Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 204
Location: teeside

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 05 10:47 am Post subject:
According to River Cottage Cookbook, Hugh F. W. reckons that because supermarkets have a 4 day shelf life for fish, they should be reasonably fresh (he's never smelt our local asda's fish counter). a good tip though is because us brits eat a lot of fish on fridays, this is the best time to buy fresh fish as thats when supermarkets get their biggest delivery.

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 05 10:54 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Jonnyboy wrote:

I'm not sure about shellfish farming, will have to look into it a bit more, but as they are filter feeders I assume that sustainable water quality is a far greater priority.

From my understanding I believe that most mollusc farming in the UK relies on little or no inputs and is carried out quite sustainably

As well as being low-input and improving water quality, farming obviates the wholesale habitat destruction of bottom trawling. No question, such farming is 'a good thing'.

I refer again to
https://www.thefishlist.org/thelist.shtml
which is a US site that brings together the recommendations of a number of environmental, conservation (and even medical) groups on this very subject.

I have no problem agreeing that salmon farming has a considerable room for environmental improvement.
I have to wonder whether the farming of 'bottom-feeders' in conjunction with salmon, and possibly moluscs too, might result in a more efficient use of resources and less environmental impact... Wouldn't do anything much for the escapee problem though.

I'm surprised not to have noticed anything about bio-control of sea lice, rather than chemical control... is there a natural sea lice predator? That could itself be farmed?

A major fish farming problem is the input of fishmeal.
A lot of European fishmeal came from sand eels. These have been industrially over-fished to the point that the EU has banned the practice in the North Sea for now. (The effects had been visible for a few years in low numbers and malnourishment of those seabirds that also depend on the sand eel.)
However, only some fishmeal comes from sand eels.
And only some fishmeal goes to fish farming. (IMHO a better use than making fertiliser out of it.)

I note, in passing that "The Fish List" praises wild North Atlantic prawns and (US) farmed tilapia and striped bass...

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 05 11:01 am Post subject:

dougal wrote:

I have to wonder whether the farming of 'bottom-feeders' in conjunction with salmon, and possibly moluscs too, might result in a more efficient use of resources and less environmental impact... Wouldn't do anything much for the escapee problem though.

I believe there are experiments with some kind of crustacean suspended below or near salmon cages to mop up the waste.

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 05 11:04 am Post subject:
This is the best site for learning about sustainable fish species in the UK, https://www.fishonline.org/

mick ball

Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 36
Location: DONCASTER sth yorks

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 06 8:17 pm Post subject:
Bass are farmed in turkey

Bunnykiller

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 56
Location: Brixham S.Devon

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 06 9:47 pm Post subject:

Living in Brixham and having worked on the trawlers luckily i still know enough people to be able to walk on the quay and walk back off it with a bag of free fish and can honestly say i have never paid for any fish ever,how lucky is that ??
i know what everyone means about the smell at the supermarket fish counter,but the worst thing is the price

also lucky that one of my best mates is a crabber so they come free too and if i am extra special lucky i get a bluey thrown at me (as in Lobster not porn movie!!)

talking of fish i best get my self sorted as off cod fishing off berry head in about 10 mins

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 06 9:59 am Post subject:
The MCS published a report relating to supermarkets and how they stock/source fish. It's very good and can be found here P.S. - M&S came first.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46239
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 06 7:11 pm Post subject:

a 4 day shelf life for a dead fish (not frozen on demise )is wrong ,some are good for 12 hours ,a few until they relax ,some need cooking soon as (mackrel n pilchards etc ), ethical is sustainable and personal (caught and dispatched fast )
frozen ,pickled salted , , dried or smoked is best if it has to be dead more than a few hours before dinner imho
some are best raw and very fresh
im rarely impressed by anyfish on a counter and my comments on supermarket zombie fish are not fit to post , travelling vans from the inshore fisheries are a fair bet as are independant mongers but mostly i met my fish first

Gus

Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 38
Location: scottish borders

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 06 11:51 am Post subject:
Dougal touched on an interesting subject in this thread, one which is very close to my heart. Salmon farms are one of the biggest environmental disasters ever to hit the coasts of scotland. Rather than rant about it, I'll post this link and let you make your own minds up. https://www.salmonfarmmonitor.org/problems.shtml

doctoral

Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 697
Location: Now in Surrey ... I need a good avatar

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 06 5:08 pm Post subject:
our local Lidl supermarket is selling frozen lobsters at �4-99 - has anyone heard of farmed lobsters? They all weigh in at 400 grams.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 06 5:19 pm Post subject:

Lobster farming is less straightforward than prawn farming. The little darlings fight too much and if they don't eat each other they have each others claws off. In some parts of the world lobster farming is all about growing them up to a size where they can be released, thus artificially replenishing wild stocks. I think that theres some lobster farming in Norway, and theres some talk of building artificial reefs for lobster 'farming' off some Scottish sea lochs, but I don't know any details.

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