Building a home - to live in!

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Building a home - to live in!
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wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 04 10:42 am Post subject:

anneka wrote:

Thank you WW, I think that we are restricted by the planning as far as solar tiles go, I am not sure but I will look in to it.

Anneka

I'd be surprised, as I think you have to be looking quite hard from the ground to notice, so it would be unreasonable to refuse them - but then councils never are reasonable, are they? I'll ask Uncle John.

WW

Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 18, 04 12:39 am Post subject: Re: Building a home - to live in!

anneka wrote:

...
We want our home to be as environmentally friendly and sustainable as possible - and cheap to run in the future. We have decided on several things which although making the project initially more expensive to build will reduce running costs and hopefully deliver us the most self sufficient manner of heating and lighting our home.

The structure of the house is timber frame, with an incrediblly high U value (down to masses of insulation) and will have triple glazed argon (don't know if thats good) filled windows.

...We will be running the lighting as long as we can fathom the system properly from batteries which will be recharged by a wind turbine and a small solar panel. The larger solar panel tubes are probably beyond our budget, my MIL has them on her roof and they were fantasitally expensive to buy and install, I don't really think that she will see the return on them in any way other than as a benifit to the environment, I'm not knocking the technology - just the cost. We are also looking at geothermal heating but are unsure about this as we have yet to talk to someone who actually has it - but have family in Sweden where it is common so hopefully all will become clearer.

We will have underfloor heating and a heat exchanger for ventilation (see insulation) - we are undecided as to wether to get a solid fuel range (there is an oil fired range which can do hot water, underfloor heating and cook) - but again we could get these things from seperate appliances cheaper.

Would be extreamly grateful for any suggestions ...

Hi -
Undoubtedly brilliant insulation is the right priority for expenditure.
But remember that "free" solar gain can be maximised, and heat loss minimised by the basic design using large south-facing windows, and smaller ones on the north.
I'm surprised that you have concluded that windpower and pv (solar electricity generation) are more worthwhile than solar water heating. My reading has suggested that large, cheap (albeit relatively low "effeciency") 'flat plate' solar water heating was quite cost effective - and you can even make your own, see CAT. The vacuum tubes have higher "efficiency" in terms of heat per square metre, but not in terms of heat per �!
I'd think of using solar water heating with a larger than expected (and better insulated) tank. A tall, thin tank gives better "stratification". Thus you can harvest all the heat on offer on good days, and have enough to see you through the odd bad one or two. I'm thinking of this as a means of getting nearly 100% of your water heating for 6/8 months of the year.
Some auxilliary heating is going to be required in winter, (or otherwise the system is going to be excessive for summer).
Just pick the low-hanging fruit!

Underfloor makes a lot of sense, but particularly in a 'solid' floor. Which probably means concrete. This can then act as a giant "storage radiator", spreading daytime solar gain into the evening - and potentially allowing a heatpump system (called "geothermal" but not correctly) to run usefully on off-peak electricity.

Heatpumps are at their most efficient when producing a small rise in temperature. So while you may get a factor of 5x for their efficiency when heating water to 35C for underfloor, it will likely drop to 2x when heating to 65C for hot water (or conventional radiators)...
You can take that efficiency factor, and use it to *divide* the unit cost of electricity to get the cost of your heat.
Running a heatpump primarily on offpeak is pretty good on running costs (and making use of generator output that would likely otherwise go to waste). But it barely makes economic sense compared to mains gas, if that should be available...

With super-insulation, all the heat from cooking and lighting will make a noticeable impact on the central heating requirement. So a smaller, less wildly expensive heatpump can be used.

And don't do anything to improve the "garden" area where the collector would be buried until after its in! (Buried about a metre down, its really using the ground as a solar collector and energy store - true geothermal means going much much deeper for volcanic-type earth's core heating.)

There are special hot water tanks called "thermal stores" which can be used to 'gather' the heat from varoius sources (solar, range backboiler, heatpump,...) and even (although I doubt you should) distribute it at different temps to hot water and central heating. You might want to check them out, but probably a big tank with two or three indirect coils is your answer.

I'm a little surprised that you would opt for "standalone" electricity generation - with lots of faffing with batteries, and a limited output. If you are on mains electricity a "grid connected" system would be so much easier to live with - think of it as using your own, selling the surplus and having the mains to draw from if needed - automagically and without you having to get involved in the problems of energy storage! Unless, of course, you just want to disconnect...!

Just my two-pennyworth, hope its helpful, I'm dead jealous really!

Dougal

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45668
Location: Essex

Posted: Sat Dec 18, 04 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Building a home - to live in!

Anonymous wrote:

Just my two-pennyworth, hope its helpful, I'm dead jealous really!

Dougal

Dougal you sound pretty knowledgable, fancy doing a full blown article on the options available?

Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 04 10:22 pm Post subject:
You may have come across it already, but www.eco-logicbooks.com have some great books on alternative building techniques, t.o.h and I have been inspired by 'Building with Bales', just got to find the land and money now! Tristan

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45668
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 04 10:24 pm Post subject:
It's a great site, haven't got the book though, how close are you to getting the land and money then?

Tristan

Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 392
Location: North Gloucestershire

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 04 2:30 am Post subject:
Let's put it this way, if I buy the bales next season I'll have a great pile of compost by the time the land is sorted! Seriously though, we've only just started to look at the idea, so any suggestions and ideas welcome. Tristan

alison
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 12918
Location: North Devon

Posted: Sat Jan 01, 05 7:10 pm Post subject:
What do the planners, or the building regulation people think about building with straw.

Sarah D

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 2584

Posted: Sat Jan 01, 05 7:43 pm Post subject:
I think the planning peoples' views vary from Council to Council, and no two seem to be exactly the same.............. I don't know about Building Regs people, but imagine it may be much the same for them. I'm longing for someone here to apply for permission for a straw bale build - something to get my teeth into on the Parish Council............. It may well be me applying, though

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 05 12:04 pm Post subject:

I don't know about the building regs, but the NHBC won't cover straw bale builds. For anyone who doesn't know, then the NHBC let you (for a fee!) register your property for a ten year structural gurantee, and most mortgage lenders insist on it as part of their lending conditions (there is an alternative scheme through zurich, but I don't know if they would cover a straw bale build either)

If you you don't need a mortgage, you don't need to consider this (lucky you), but may have problems selling it later, if your buyer needs a mortgage.

hardworkinghippy

Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1110
Location: Bourrou South West France

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 05 2:40 pm Post subject:

I'm dying to jump in here, then I remember that I live in France and everything is different here - but it's not that different.

Twelve years ago I applied for PP to build a 170 sqare metre straw bale house. I'd done my research (France already has a lot of straw bale buildings.) and technically, the plans I did were excellent. I was refused permission time after time simply because the local planning department didn't know much about the technique and couldn't be bothered learning.

I needed somewhere to live, so I relented and changed "bales" to breezeblock" on the plans and the PP was delivered without a hitch.

Education and spreading the word is the most important this we can do to help this technique become accepted by planners. Now, in this part of France it is not too difficult to get PP for small straw projects, providing they are not loadbearing.

With respect, I think too that many of us should get away from the idea that building is for "reselling" or for "life". Sometimes a temporary structure can give you and your family a few years breathing space at a cheap rent in an amazing natural environment.

I know there's no stability, but at least you can be sort of sure that you won't be swept away by some huge tidal wave.

HWH

Uncle-silas

Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 10
Location: Lincolnshire

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 05 2:01 pm Post subject: heater cooker boiler
There is a product that I sell that does all of the above, big oven, 15kw boiler and burns wood, have a look at https://www.metaldynamics.com.au/metaldynamics.htm and go to the gourmet page, get in touch if you need any other help

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45668
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 05 2:04 pm Post subject:
The Metal dynamics stove looks good Uncle, only snag is you're the other side of the world... Welcome on board by the way

Uncle-silas

Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 10
Location: Lincolnshire

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 05 3:50 pm Post subject:
I am in Lincolnshire, where are you?

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 05 3:53 pm Post subject:
He's in Essex, it's a world away...

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45668
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 05 4:11 pm Post subject:

Uncle-silas wrote:

I am in Lincolnshire, where are you?

Aha, I thought you were in sunny Oz

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