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Shan

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 9075
Location: South Wales

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 19 11:47 am Post subject:

We tended not to ear tag and always slap marked. The reason we did this was because our pigs were not confined to small areas, so had plenty of interesting bits to snout about in. A tag ripped out of an ear in the hedgerow is not a happy occurrence!

Escaping pigs tended to come down to a couple of issues:

* pigs flinging mud or turf onto the electric fence: oh yes, they are that bright.

* battery going dead (run down quick by vegetation against or flung onto the fence)

* Jabba managing to figure out the pulse on the fence - oh yes she did, I had to move the setting from slow to fast pulse.

* Idiots leaving the small pedestrian gate open in our second field (the bloody pheasant shoot)

The first issue (electric fence) could probably have been resolved by mains powered electric fence but in our case, it would have been quite a job to do it as the power source was quite far away.

The 2nd issue was a problem that eventually resolved itself when the gamekeeper got tired of having to refill and reposition every single pheasant feeding station.

I think it might be worth exploring a mixture of cameras and alarm sensors. Mr S recently bought an outdoor camera that can pan and tilt and of course alarm sensors are freely available.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 19 1:44 pm Post subject:

Shan wrote:

The first issue (electric fence) could probably have been resolved by mains powered electric fence but in our case, it would have been quite a job to do it as the power source was quite far away.

May I suggest a device that monitors the fence and sends a report back to base to let you know about the battery going flat?
I won't be surprised if there is no such thing, but it ought not be a difficult thing to produce (he says...).
What sort of distance are we talking about?

Quote:

I think it might be worth exploring a mixture of cameras and alarm sensors.

If you've got a thing attached to the pig, then that opens up all kinds of possibilities to trigger alarms if it moves too far away.
The first question is of whether you can attach such a thing to a pig in a satisfactory way.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 19 1:52 pm Post subject:
An alarm going off once they’ve escaped is not the solution. 16 acres is tiny compared to the size of the acreage the other side of the fence. The solution is not letting them escape. (More than once I wished I’d fitted gps pinger to a dexter). Days I wasted. Days.

Shan

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 9075
Location: South Wales

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 19 1:58 pm Post subject:

Hairyloon wrote:

Shan wrote:

The first issue (electric fence) could probably have been resolved by mains powered electric fence but in our case, it would have been quite a job to do it as the power source was quite far away.

Quote:

I think it might be worth exploring a mixture of cameras and alarm sensors.

Nick's GPS idea is probably the best one if the little shits do escape.

Last edited by Shan on Thu Oct 17, 19 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

gregotyn

Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 2201
Location: Llanfyllin area

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 19 2:16 pm Post subject:

I would see escaping stock as a way of seeing what my neighbours were up to, when I went to retrieve them, and hoping the stock hasn't done too much damage-not in reality!
The saying round our way is that good fences make good neighbours; and that is so true. Round here if stock escape it is usually sheep, as it is the lamb's first lesson from its mother, "see how far you can walk in a day? Baa-baa, make sure you are back for tea!"

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15997

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 19 6:23 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15997

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 19 6:25 am Post subject:

The only experience I have with escaping stock, and that not first hand, was a Soay sheep that had to be severely confined until sent to Wales in disgrace, and some goats that also had to be sent away. They were both at our local country park and caused quite a lot of trouble. The goats of course, being goats, did it during the last F&M outbreak, and the Park Manager let it be known to the local farmers that if one got shot on their land, he wouldn't be too upset.

gregotyn

Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 2201
Location: Llanfyllin area

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 19 10:27 am Post subject:

Looking at it, the holding could be very good, The poly tunnel looks in good order which is a start. A lot of work; but looking at it, with a few pigs and sound fencing the clearance could be done for you and a saleable product available in a few months. Priority is to get a chairperson and committee-not too many on it!
You will need a source or water. I collect mine in buckets-it is free!
I am not sure I agree with dpack about a full time pig person. But you need a pig person who knows what he is talking about on hand to advise, and advice is often available in a local area. But you need 2-3 people who want to 'do' pigs! The ultimate is to get a vet who wants to take part in the whole project as a 'member', (rather than someone who charges through the nose), and so would hopefully charge less than an employee of the practice-well worth a try. Asking with an element of cheek can go a long way, especially with a new vet to the area-perhaps wanting to get "in" locally? Young vets live amongst the people they vet for, both you and me!
If it goes ahead, do the poly tunnel first and get production underway. With everybody involved helping to clear outside to be able to electric fence and fixed back up fencing for the pigs-to clear the site ready for cropping. One "crop" of pigs for a few months could be enough, they will reduce all scrub to soil quite quickly-I've been there.
I would try to get a strong, secure shed built, to sell vegetables from eventually?, but initially for tool storage. If and when you feel the need for a human presence on site at night, you could install a caravan for night guard duties, but that is some way off-much water and bridges to deal with first!

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 19 12:12 pm Post subject:
What I would do as a starting point, at least partly because one of the directors has a bee in his bonnet about heat pumps, is to use one to heat an aquaculture setup: integrated fish, fruit & vegetables, and the heating would allow for producing products more used to warmer climes.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 19 12:28 pm Post subject:

how much cash do they have?
heat pumps and warm water prawns etc are not cheap kit.

re the full time thing i would not keep livestock without a dedicated full time keeper on welfare, security and husbandry grounds.
24/7 with the beasts is not required but livestock need available and regularly aware 24/7 care as required

for instance member x is feeding twice a day that week but is an accountant, at work all day and the fence breaks at 10 am or one is a bit quiet but they don't notice it is very poorly at tea time.
how does that work for the pigs or the neighbours?

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 19 9:33 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

how much cash do they have?
heat pumps and warm water prawns etc are not cheap kit.

I don't know, but one of the directors has an obsession with them: he wants to heat the city with them...

Quote:

re the full time thing i would not keep livestock without a dedicated full time keeper on welfare, security and husbandry grounds.
24/7 with the beasts is not required but livestock need available and regularly aware 24/7 care as required

For clarity, a full time stock keeper would be there full time, but need not be using all his time on the stock?
They seem decided and I'm not going to argue it unless other members also show some interest.[/quote]

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 19 9:33 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

how much cash do they have?
heat pumps and warm water prawns etc are not cheap kit.

I don't know, but one of the directors has an obsession with heat pumps: he wants to heat the city with them...
I think a heated greenhouse is a more sensible place to start.

Quote:

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 19 11:53 am Post subject:
For clarity, a full time stock keeper would be there full time, but need not be using all his time on the stock? yep, most days stock take a few hours but some times they might need 3 days and nights of constant care . on easy days somebody needs to be about to notice any problems, an easy day can get complex at any moment.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 19 3:43 pm Post subject:
Their plan: https://www.kvdt.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Business-plan-Final.pdf

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 19 4:08 pm Post subject:

that makes sense, gruntavators don't get a mention.

so long as they can get the local uptake on veg boxes and fulfil those orders it should work ok

the folk starting it seem to have a pretty good skill set

the start up costs seem rather low for what might be a bit tricky to staff etc until folk see it is up and running. it seems plausible that staff or unlisted equipment might be required rather than volunteers for say field planting or harvest at times.

spuds for instance or neeps need a lot of labour and/or kit to feed 80 + families
peas

etc

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