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Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15985

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 23 10:37 am Post subject: Farming

Rob Rose who used to post on here made the following statement at the NFU Conference when addressing the possible importation of Mexican beef according to the Guardian;

Rob Rose, a regenerative beef farmer from Rosewood farm in Yorkshire, said there was no justification for importing beef produced to lower standards.

He told the Guardian: “I can see no justification for importing any beef into the UK – it certainly won’t help UK farmers or food security if the standards or price of that beef is lower than that which we can produce in the UK.”

Thought you might like to see it. The discussion was about beef produced to lower welfare and higher carbon input standards that UK beef. There was also the concern that lack of control may introduce disease. This is something the UK forestry sector is also worried about; it is too easy to bring in pests and diseases if biosecurity is lax.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 23 1:08 pm Post subject:
bit of a brexit issue that food import and production malarkey

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 23 3:25 pm Post subject:

the viability of local production depends on the legal and economic conditions applying to local vs import

re conditions for ethical and sustainable farming, putting hedge fund managers, wannabe kleptocrats, idiots and probable hostile assets in charge of national policies might not be ideal

it is hard without that, with it, it aint going to happen.

coffee was hardly a poster girl for health policy, at farming and environment she is even less convincing than gove was with his countryfile countryside and lies about fish

the lynx issue is high on my not to-do do list

a dead cat got clap

domestic, ethical and sustainable, food for 65 million in the uk and a bit left over to swap for saffron is plausible, although challenging
it is not plausible without good radical long term planning and execution of the plan as it develops

at the mo it seems unlikely if simple stuff like health, pollution, energy and transport are examples of government work

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 23 9:26 pm Post subject:

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 23 3:25 pm Post subject:

domestic, ethical and sustainable, food for 65 million in the uk and a bit left over to swap for saffron is plausible, although challenging
it is not plausible without good radical long term planning and execution of the plan as it develops

There lie`s the crux of the matter,the radical planning is quite the opposite,every political party wants to reduce livestock numbers in the UK,give grants to big concerns to plant tree`s on Productive land,whole farms that have been purchased to off set their carbon usage,our own Government in Wales has purchased good land to plant tree`s on,when there`s plenty of disused opencast land still looking like a moonscape.

Foreign meats have been imported into the UK for decades and with the governmental run down of farming one can only expect more.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15985

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 23 8:44 am Post subject:

I am afraid I don't see a situation where we could be entirely self sufficient in all food in the UK with the present population. We need to reduce population by making 2 children the maximum socially acceptable number to reduce the population gradually so there are enough younger people available without a sudden massive excess in older people to make that work.

Ty Gwyn, we have been importing food since Victorian times, and traditional ones like NZ lamb when there is little British, apples out of season and tropical and sub tropical produce are fine as long as biosecurity and good hygiene and welfare standards are enforced. Reducing these standards to let in produce that will undercut our farmers and reduce the amount we grow ourselves is not.

I also agree with you about planting trees on good farm land. Using land reclaimed from industry makes far more sense, even if it is going to be initially far more expensive as will need some treatment or earth movement as well as careful selection of species. Encouraging woodland management would also be helpful as this is going to lock up a lot more carbon than planting tiny sticks in the ground. We thin our plantation about every 5 years to open up the canopy and at the end of that time the gaps in the canopy have filled in. Think how many sticks in the ground that covers! Leaving a woodland to just fall apart leaves timber and wood that is good for the ecosystem but it does rot producing a mixture of methane and carbon dioxide, so growing trees are better for climate change than decaying ones. We do leave some to rot as we understand that it is needed in the ecosystem, but most doesn't need to be just left.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 23 12:57 pm Post subject:

I agree totally with you,but its surprising how much forequarter beef is exported from the UK and hindquarter imported for catering outlets.

Even though there are 1,000`s of sheep in my local area,out of season lamb from NZ is brought into an abattoir near me to be processed,it happens yearly with the price of local lamb dropping,but come Easter the price will go through the roof.

Forestry management as been virtually non existent in the last 30 to 40yrs because they lost the outlet for the thinnings,Colliery timber.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 23 1:15 pm Post subject:

the places food is imported from are at considerable risk of both geopolitics and climate catastrophe

current local production is based on the import market for primary supplies such as soya and artificial fertilizer and more than half of human edible products are directly imported

land use in the uk is ridiculous, based on ownership rather than logic and efficiency
even when land is being used for production it could be done far better for both productivity and sustainability as well as resilience to future and current environmental challenges

for radical leave what is ongoing in the food sector alone for the mo

add plenty of affordable renewable energy for intensive uses such as fertilizer, lights, heat as soon as available

use underperforming land(the usual suspects) and make it productive in appropriate ways, see above and intensive growing but also "greener" things such as soil and forest development

think local, hi tec salad from a city centre ex retail site or a forlorn hope of a Moroccan tomato?

bulk calories/carbs is a bit of an issue in the uk, a change of diet might be nice and more plausible than the current one

Protein is no bother if one is adventurous in biochemistry or wriggly things in a pan, vertebrates can be organized quite well in the right regimes

if the sea is clean and well managed, there are multiple opportunities for food

even windowbox scale adds up

or collapse the supply chain, give it a few weeks, plenty to go round if they know what to eat

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 23 2:09 pm Post subject:
don't waste it is a bit radical but might be effective numbers

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 23 2:23 pm Post subject:
import issues and nobody needed a submarine

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 23 2:47 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

bit of a brexit issue that food import and production malarkey

Absolutely, one of the key things that will need to happen to get a post Brexit deal with the US is a lowering of farm welfare standards.

Highlighting this at the time was one of the reasons why Rob stopped posting here.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 23 10:48 pm Post subject:

australian standards are already promised for food imports, tariff free, under their excellent trade deal with the uk
no better than usa standards for welfare or production methods

we can probably not worry about usa food standards at the mo, as the situation regarding the GFA/BA/english border/stormont etc eliminates any chance of a free trade deal with the usa before they are resolved

even then the uk will be "at the back of the queue" as it is proven untrustworthy with treaties it has agreed

as both the usa and aus have rapidly developing climate issues it may not be long before they are not mass market export food producers

expecting a sensible government generated food supply policy seems optimistic while we have a SoS for ag who has a cunning plan combining the best ideas of baldrick and marie antoinette

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 23 1:03 am Post subject:
ps in other coffee time news she left the NFU early to avoid reporters questions, farmers etc she was claiming she needed to get back to westminster for a vote, there were no relevant votes that day for her to vote in that probably shows the level of the government's interest in "farming" and related matters

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15985

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 23 8:11 am Post subject:

The UK must not reduce welfare, biosecurity or other standards. I must say I approve of checking seeds, plants or anything else that comes in to prevent contamination; in the forestry industry we have suffered too much of that and there are various pests and diseases that are hovering not too far away.

Therese Coffrey had a point, although she doesn't win the prize for the best way to promote it. I remember when I was a child that we went on holiday over Christmas one year and went out for the day. We were given a packed lunch that included a tomato, and I can still remember the surprise I had nearly 70 years later. We only had tomatoes during the outdoor tomato season as they were too expensive otherwise. We mainly had veg we could grow ourselves or that was grown in the UK. The exceptions were cauliflower and onions. The French onion sellers used to come over and I have seen pictures of them with their bikes laden with them, although we were too far out for them to visit us. I also remember the cauliflower lorries that came off the ferry and went up to Covent Garden to sell them, then brought a reasonable number back to our area to sell. Even as a child I thought that was silly.

Looking at the way we waste food in the home; I am sure that most Downsizers do all the 'food saving' recommended by that already.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 23 10:59 am Post subject:

there is probably little point in hoping for a sensible long term food and farm policy(or short term for that matter) from this government who are grabbing what they can before they lose power, attempting to distract from their lies, crimes and failures

the next gov/s might be rather too busy getting through the day to day stuff caused by the recent torykipper governments and global events to be able to put much effort into long term planning and enacted policies

to be food secure in the uk is not impossible, but even with good intent and the power of the state backing sensible objectives it would be difficult

the history of the british state and food for subjects/income for the elite is educational
see Trevelyan's corn and the Bangalore famine for openers, the same principles are still being applied by similar people

why bother about long term supply of pet and servant food if you can steal billions of public money or short the pound and make it pay or if the price of 500g of pasta is of no consequence to you as the work canteens are subsidized and a kind "donor" has pasta delivered to your residences

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 23 11:16 am Post subject:

I`m no fan of Theresa but it was a good point just badly put across.
Cawl and stews are proper winter food not some Spanish tasteless tomato,similar to you Chris,we waited till my Granny had tomatoes in the greenhouse that was fed with watered down sheep manure,one opened the door and the musky smell hit you,the only foreign ones to come close to them are the ones i pick up in the Polish shop when i go to mart in Llanybydder,Straight from Poland and still smell musky with the proper tomato taste.

The Shoni Winwns men from Brittany on their bikes used to be a regular sight in the Swansea valley and a conversation could be had with a Welsh speaker.

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