choosing a 'green' car?

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moongoddess

Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 673

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 2:39 pm Post subject: choosing a 'green' car?

A friend of mine just asked this question, which I thought was great. Off the top of my head, I suggested a smartcar or one that runs on biodiesel or LPG (gotta admit, I wasn't really sure what I was talking about though

)

Do you have any thoughts:

"I considering getting a new car (probably not too old second hand). Where do i start considering its impact on the environment? Which are likely to be less damaging? what do i need to look out for?

Now the limit of my knowledge is engine size (the smaller the better in terms of fuel consumption) Immisions? what is considered low?"

TIA
mg x

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28237
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 2:43 pm Post subject:
I think if I was buying, i'd go for an older small diesel as these seem to have a lot of possibilities these days on the green(er) fuel front.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 2:44 pm Post subject:
Low emissions? Anything below 130gms CO2 I reckon, that gives you the Prius, Mitsubishi Colt, Audi A2, plus a few more widely available ones (Citroen, Pegeot, Renault, VW all do small low emission cars) If your friend can buy bioidiesel then a small diesel may well be the best option

oldhibberd

Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 118

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 4:52 pm Post subject:
"Green" Car, no such thing, I think it's called bicycle!

Will

Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 571
Location: Grenoside, Sheffield

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 5:07 pm Post subject:

Burning LPG is not particularly less polluting than petrol and requires installation of additional fuel system. It is (currently) quite a bit cheaper - although running on LPG is only around 2/3 as efficient as petrol IIRC, the lower duty on LPG makes it cheaper overall. This may well change in the near future.

It might also be worth considering that the energy consumed in making a car move is only a part of the total energy consumed in manufacture, running, maintenance and disposal. Any car will therefore have made a significant environmental impact before it ever moves. A smaller car will have consumed less materials in its manufacture.

Also worth considering how recyclable the car is at the end, the end-life policies of the manufacturer, and ensuring that it is maintained and run for as long as possible to reduce the quantity of materials and energy consumed by increased demand for new cars.

Dougal will be along to recommend the Audi A2 in a moment...

I'd say something small and biodiesel compatible. Listing of biodiesel compatibility (not exhaustive)

here

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 5:08 pm Post subject:

oldhibberd wrote:

"Green" Car, no such thing,

No, greens called something like "emerald forest pearl" or somthing such.

I'm looking to downsize a small 4x4 to a smallish diesel this year. I don't like the look of the A2 as I suspect it will feel side winds being a tallish light car. I'm currently thinking about a new fiesta diesel or something a little bigger. Anyone drive a small diesel?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 5:15 pm Post subject:
The A2 definitely sways a bit on motorways, otherwise a v nice car. I like the Golf TDi, or if you want to go smaller the Mitsubishi Colt.

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 5:15 pm Post subject:
The Fiat Panda diesel's had very good reviews. We've got a Focus diesel which is quite nice.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 5:17 pm Post subject:
Actually the Fiat diesel's are lovely engines, test drove an Alfa last year was impressed until I found how badly they'd done in the crash tests.

oldhibberd

Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 118

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 5:18 pm Post subject:
Have experience of two:- Peugeot 205 diesel, Great car 55 to the gallon on a run, unfortunately rear ended by a taxi driver. Ford Escort Diesel, Enough to put me off buying another ford for life

Will

Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 571
Location: Grenoside, Sheffield

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 5:20 pm Post subject:
Driven a 206 diesel a few times and would recommend it as long as you're not expecting earth-shattering performance.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 5:41 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the link Will I notice there are no Fords or Toyotas. I would certainly like to run the car on some form of bio-diesel at some point. I get a little confused with the manufacturers these days as they often share engines. I know VW, Seat, Audi, Scoda etc are all the same company and Ford and Mazdas are the same but doesn't Ford share engines with Pegeot/Citroen?

I don't expect a fast car, I'm over that now, more of a pipe and slippers motorist now.

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 5:43 pm Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

I don't expect a fast car, I'm over that now, more of a pipe and slippers motorist now.

Is it time to launch the Downsizer red velvet steering-wheel cover?

Jb

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 7761
Location: 91� N

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 5:44 pm Post subject:
Following on from the comment about the energy cost of manufacturing the thing in the first place ... How much gain in fuel efficiency would you have to get to offset the energy used in manufacturing a car?

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 06 9:15 pm Post subject:

Will wrote:

Dougal will be along to recommend the Audi A2 in a moment...

Seems I don't need to...

Its horses for courses, really.
An appropriate car is going to be very different for different people. But generally, something no bigger than needed, that gives good fuel figures, and is built to last a heck of a long time (so that maximum use is made of the resources consumed in making the thing).

Diesels, when properly looked after, can last a phenominal time. They generally give good mpg. And those made in the last ten years or so, unmodified, will run happily on biodiesel blends - which will be becoming much more available in the near future. Using even a Bio blend greatly improves the worst aspect of diesels, their particulate emissions.
Most will run perfectly on 100% Biodiesel, but, anyway, that is not widely available, nor likely to be for some while.
Use of the Biofuel reduces fossil carbon usage. Which is good.

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