builders estimates

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builders estimates

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bernie-woman

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 7824
Location: shropshire

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 06 6:39 am Post subject: builders estimates

Well the good news is that we have now planning permission to out another two bedrooms and another bathroom onto the house

- another step in the right direction to an eventual move

The bad news is that we are now getting some of the builders estimates in - can anyone tell me how there could possibly be a 25k difference in one quote (seriously) to another - people keep telling me 'oh they obviously don't want the job so have put in an offensivley high quote' - is it just me or would it not be easier for them to tell me that they are too busy or do not want to do this particular job - nearly had a bl**dy heart attack when the estimate was delivered

Also should I ever think of trusting a builder who is more orange than Dale Winton, wears marginally less 'bling' than Mr T from the A Team, reeks of very strong aftershave and tells me he only works 15 weeks in a year

Give me strength

Bernie66

Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 13967
Location: Eastoft

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 06 8:02 am Post subject:

Getting the right builder is going to be the most crucial part of the project. Take your time and see and speak to people who have had work done by these chaps. Get everything written down and then studied by a third party, even if its your architect or some one with a bit of history. Ensure that you "get on" with your builder, he will be around for a bit and its important to have a rappor with him.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 06 8:03 am Post subject:

Were the quotes identical? In my limited experience it can be difficult to get people to provide and itemised quote so you can compare.

I also wish builders would just be honest if they don't want the work, in the past I've phoned a builder and tried to briefly describe what I want done so they can turn down the job there and then but they just seem to want to come round to look for themselves. So I take the time off work and some don't even bother turning up and others turn up but don't bother sending a quote.

bernie-woman

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 7824
Location: shropshire

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 06 8:17 am Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

Were the quotes identical? In my limited experience it can be difficult to get people to provide and itemised quote so you can compare.

Well both quotes were formed from the architects schedule of works (I think that is what it is called - a detailed description of the work neede to be carried out) - I spoke to both builders and exlained to both what I wanted included, also the amount we were willing to spend on sanitary ware, windows etc... so roughly both builders were given the same info - there isn't that much that could be interpreted differetly - basically no foundation work just building up to make two boxes with a roof (thats what the architect said anyway)

We have also been told by one builder that the works will take 12-15 weeks , one 8 weeks and the other 5

You are absolutely right about getting the right one Bernie - I ahve always been like this with anyone we have working in the house - I have to feel that I feel comfortable with the person - difficult to explain but I do go with my gut feeling - out of the three we have seen so far only one I would be happy with - got another 4 to ring on Monday after Anglesey

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 06 8:23 am Post subject:

A friend of mine had an extension done recently, plus I have a mate who is a builder. My builder friend quoted for the job and was 10k too expensive, what he said was with extensions you don't really know what to expect until you start stripping out, so depending on how much you want the job you will either take a flyer on how well it will go or be risk averse, also if the materials are not specified then you have a wide latitude on quality and price.

bernie-woman

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 7824
Location: shropshire

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 06 8:27 am Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

That would make sense in that the best estimate so far (which is at least from this planet

) has been from a builder who used to work with the developer who built the houses so he knows the make up of the houses really well so I would imagine he knows what he is going to find when he strips stuff out

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46216
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 06 10:12 pm Post subject:
prepare a schedule of work with drawings , specifications and timings . get fixed price quotes . write in time penalties /keep a 10% retainer for after commpletion snagging . everyone wins

Gervase

Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 8655

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 06 2:28 pm Post subject:

There shouldn't be a huge discrepancy between quotes, as the formulae are pretty common - most of them use Griffith's for pricing, which breaks down every aspect of work into a cost to which a regional multiplier is applied, and if that fails there's a standard, idealised sum per square metre of work.

However you do get variations in quotes because... because some builders are better than others and can charge more; because some are faster and therefore can charge less; because some have higher overheads (more vehicles, plant and staff); because some look at the client and try to guess how much they can get away with or because some are naive and don't charge nearly enough for their work (and yes, they do exist - I know a couple of superb builders who have been routinely charging half what they could and should charge and have been nagging them to 'get real'). There are also builders who estimate conservatively, factoring in any number of contingencies so that they seem expensive but usually deliver under budget, and there are others who will pitch in with a low estimate and then horrify you with all sorts of add-ons.

So there's really nothing unusal about big discrepancies in tenders. Any reputable builder should be able to give you references, though. Ask them what other projects they've done and for the phone numbers of the clients. Talk to the clients and tell them what you're doing - would they recommend the guys? Never appoint anyone without knowing what their work is like and whether they give value for money.

And, as dpack says, get fixed price quotes and write in time penalties - one of the commonest gripes, particularly with smaller jobs, is that the builders keep buggering off to do more lucrative work, leaving your job unfinished. A penalty clause will help prevent that.

A schedule of works is vital - and for everyone's sake, make sure you stick to it. There's nothing worse for a builder than a client who keeps changing his or her mind and ammending the plans. It also annoys the building inspector and can end up costing you more in time and money, so have a clear picture of what you want before you start.

As for paying the builders, a fair formula is one third when the agreement is signed, one third when the building inspector has approved the works on a second visit and the final third on completion. There are all sorts of variations to this, however, so be prepared to be flexible. Many builders, though, will want a 'draw' during the work, particularly if it goes on for some time. A couple of grand a month would be normal, if the work is progressing well.

And keep communication channels open - talk to the guys about what they're doing and listen to their advice. Good builders know more about building than you do, and probably more than your architect, so their advice can be timely and cost-effective.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46216
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 06 3:50 pm Post subject:

gervaise is right about payment but it is polite to take materials cost into account
ie 70m2 2 layer rendering has few hundred � materials but a top spec kitchen costs thousands � both have a similar labour cost to install
i would often say to a client buy the stuff here ,have it delivered and lose my mark up but keep my cash flow if the item was costly , ask about such things .good will from suppliers is ace for tradesmen

when they need 4 unusual bolts they arrive if you take clients to them for big stuff

.
get it all on paper and most things will work out fine for all parties
ask folk locally who are good /not good . word of mouth is better than tv adverts use local knowledge .
get copies of the builders insurance details and make sure you pay when you have agreed to .
i am trying to describe a happy job for all concered things will go wrong but if the terms are set out mostly the job gets done well .
extras is extra as it said at the bottom of the third page in big letters

i almost miss it .
not quite enough to say do you need a site agent

good luck and get advice from us lot its cheaper .however if you know and trust a pro to organise things they more than save their fee and get a splendid job done with no major problems .
fixing your property is a big committment and is worth doing properly (it is so much easier when its done properly

)

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