Beekeeping as a business.

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Beekeeping as a business.
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Mrs Baggins

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 837
Location: West Kent

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 09 11:02 pm Post subject: Beekeeping as a business.

I am just over halfway thru a beginners' beekeeping course and already I have 3 serious propositions to keep bees for other ppl. This is in addition to my own bees.

I don't even have my own bee suit yet! Never mind all the hives and kit I need!

I feel really lucky that these opportunities have fallen into my lap... but I am nervous too about the initial financial outlay...

Is it usual to have this sort of opportunity / interest? We are talking about a fair number of hives here... I have been assured that I will have no problem selling the honey and I hope that is the case but it just seems amazing to me that I have received so much interest!

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 09 7:53 am Post subject:
There does seem to be a renewed interest in the bees probably due to the amount of press they have been recieving lately. How many colonies are you talking about & how far apart are they going to be geographically. If they are spread over a large area then you are going to be run ragged during the swarming season & spending a fair ammount on fuel getting around. Tell us more.

Mrs Baggins

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 837
Location: West Kent

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 09 10:29 am Post subject:

Thx Tavascarow,

I am having two BS hives at home and two TBHs. I am going to start off with 2 colonies. The TBHS are for if I need to artificially swarm or am lucky enough to catch a swarm. I'll have summat to put 'em in.

Then there is an orchard near here who I reckon should have about 9-10 hives for the amount of trees they have. There is no way (apart from the money I'd have to get together!) that could do nine more hives in my novice year of beekeeping. So I am considering doing 2-4 more there and getting the rest picked up by an experienced beekeeper. Mentor and support for me and loads of experience.

Then there are two allotment sites who want me to put bees there. Yet to visit the sites but from the maps they showed me I'd guess about 5-6 on one site and 10-11 on the other. NO way I can take those on so I have told them that I will come back to them after September and let them know how I got on with my frst year and take it from there.

If I had a store full of hives and a few years experience it would be less of a problem but I don't have a singe piece of kit yet. Not even a bee suit. Just wondered if this kind of runaway steam train thing was normal in the world of beekeeping or if the universe is trying to tell me smth....

I could walk to the allotment sites and the orchard os a couple of miles away from my house.

What do you think?

Mrs R

Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 7202

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 09 10:33 am Post subject:
hmm, I often find when i start new things that everybody likes to jump on the bandwagon but gradually they all drop off and you're only left with a couple of people who were genuinely interested longterm...

jamanda
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35057
Location: Devon

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 09 10:44 am Post subject:
You might not have trouble selling the honey - but you can't actually guarantee getting any to sell. Many people got none at all last year, and their bees have died over Winter. I don't get the impression that it's an easy thing to make money at.

Mrs Baggins

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 837
Location: West Kent

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 09 5:02 pm Post subject:
I never counted on making any money at it. All I wanted was to have some bees in my garden cos I thought it would be nice and all this has kicked off. If I do do these hives for OP tho then it does start to have more impact if I get no honey. Even more if after that all my bees snuffed it. That would be crap.

Pel

Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 2366
Location: Sennybridge

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 09 7:49 pm Post subject:

About 25 years ago, my dad had a 'flying flock' of bee hives about 50 in total, he'd take them down to kent to the orchards, and then when they'd finish there take them across to yorkshire to the OSR, where everyday he'd have to go over and hand extract. He did it for a couple of years, but after one particular year when the weather was not good and the orchards flowered late and the farmer had asked him to hang on another 2 weeks, he went down and most of the bees had starved.. they only got left there for a max of a month. he lived in lancashire at the time.
So yes it can be a good thing, but it all depends on the weather... after that i think he became an agent for thornes and upped his hive numbers upto a 100... he now only has 2 going strong one of which has a 5 year old queen who wont let any other queen take over.

So if you can sell the honey, and get through this tough time with your bees and the weather stays good for them, be worth the financial outlay.. which once you learn how to make all the hives yourself and recycle the wax shouldnt be too much.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 09 8:15 am Post subject:

I think with the current climate you would be wise to start small & build up your stocks as you go.
Remember the bees will need feed when the apples aren't blooming so you want to check out the surrounding landscape for pollen & nectar sources as well.
Also if its a commercial orchard you need to know when & what they spray & be prepared to shut your bees in at a moments notice.
Many beekeeping groups have annual auctions which are great places to buy second hand kit.
I bought a stainless 8 frame extractor & enough hive parts for about a dozen hives for less than �400.00 a few years back at one auction.
Sometimes farm equipment auctions have beek equipment for sale to.
Many beekeeping suppliers give good discounts on quantity for foundation & frames.
I have used THIS firm in the past & they gave excellent service.
Of course if you went down the TBH route then the cost would be minimal anyway.
If you are going to feed your bees then buying sugar by the 25 kg bag from a friendly baker works out a lot cheaper than by the bag from tesco.

arvo

Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 3321
Location: Somerset

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 09 8:46 pm Post subject:
Also find yourself a 'bee yoda'! Someone who you can call on as a real expert to come over and look at your hives when you're not sure what's going on. We only had 4 hives in our novice year and all the bu**ers swarmed. More than once. That was quite a busy year. We got hellishly good at catching swarms though.

chortlepinkpants

Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 10

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 09 9:19 pm Post subject:

Sorry to be a damp weekend but, you really need to take Tav's advice and start off small. There is so much to learn in your first couple of seasons, that you need the breathing space to be able to calmly plan your swarming strategy, and your integrated pest control etc. To take on more that 2 hives (with spares for limited expansion) would, I feel, be very unwise, and detrimental to your bees. BRAVO for joining the clan tho', and get to know all your local keepers for support and advice! Take care!

Mrs Baggins

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 837
Location: West Kent

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 09 10:17 pm Post subject:

Pel - Thx so much for your advice! I have no qualms about being able to sell the honey. From the few tentative investigations I've made to date, I could sell it all even if I had bumper crops - and then some! My concern is biting off more than I can chew and brushing dead bees out of my brand new hives cos I couldn't look after them properly...

Tavscarow - Great advice (as always) - thanks!

I checked with the owners of the orchard. It is certified organic and they are planting enough trees this year to double it in size. The new orchard will be a variety of fruits to produce a mexican wave of blossom for as long as possible.

There is about an acre of spare land in between the two plots which has been dedicated to bee friendly flowers. They are sowing those as we speak and the whole lot is alongside a huge forest in which there are a plethora of bee friendly trees. I specifically asked that questions as I was not prepared to do it if i involved me carting hives about in my car. That is too big an ask in my novice year...

Right from the outset I said that I would only be in it for 2-4 hives and that I would try to find someone who knew what the hell they were doing to work alongside me.

Arvo - My 'bee yoda' might be my doddery old bee tutor who tried to fix me up with an experienced bee keeper and when that didn' pan out - said that he will help me but that he can't make it down (I live about an hour's drive from him) ever couple of weeks. I've to stay behind after class next time and we are going to work out an arrangement...

Chortlepinkpants - Thanks! Not a damp weekend at all - realistic advice is what I need! I will talk to my bee tutor at great length. He called me yesterday to talk about it so he is obviously thinking long and hard about it. He does seem very sensible and responsible (when he's not pouring his tea in his lap!) and I trust that he will not get me in too deep.

I hope.

Anyway - thx everyone for taking the time to respond. You have all been really helpful.

AndrewD

Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 2

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 09 10:48 am Post subject:

I�ve just found this site, and it looks fantastic.

I have done a bee keeping course about 2 years ago. It was very interesting, but I didn�t make a start due to a number of reasons. One being the cost of the equipment. The idea of getting used equipment sounds good, but I have not seen any near me. It is a good idea to keep the cost down initially while you try it out and make sure you like doing it.

Being self-employed and tired of my current business, I am always looking for new ideas to make money. But on my bee keeping course it was said that bee keeping will not make you much. You will get free honey for yourself and should be able to sell enough to subsidise your hobby, but you will never make enough to pay for your time and expenses in terms of running a business. I�m not sure if that statement is true. Surely once you have bought your hives, the ongoing expenses are small. I would be interested in making my living from a smallholding. In which case, you do a variety of things which contribute to your overall income, and I�m sure bee keeping would be a useful addition to the other produce I would like to be involved in.

On my bee keeping course, they spoke of asking local farmers for permission to put your hives in their fields. This being a benefit to both parties, you get the honey and the farmer gets an improved yield from his crop. They said that bees are so important to some crops, that the seed supplier will put the farmer in touch with a bee keeper. A word of warning though. I spoke to a local farmer about bees and he related a story to me. He allowed someone to leave bees in one of his fields, but he forgot about them when he was using insecticide. He had a problem with the sprays and stopped the tractor to rectify it. This took some time, and when the sprays were working correctly, he noticed that he had stopped next to the hives and the whole time he had been there, the sprays had been spraying directly into the hives. Then he just laughed. Be careful where you choose to site your hives and check what the land owner might do that would be detrimental to your bees.

Good luck.

RichardW

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 09 11:10 am Post subject:

Mrs Baggins wrote:

I have no qualms about being able to sell the honey. From the few tentative investigations I've made to date, I could sell it all even if I had bumper crops - and then some!

Trouble is if you have a bumper year so does everybody else & then it gets hard to shift & worth less money.

Richard

arvo

Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 3321
Location: Somerset

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 09 12:33 pm Post subject:

AndrewD wrote:

I�ve just found this site, and it looks fantastic.

But on my bee keeping course it was said that bee keeping will not make you much. You will get free honey for yourself and should be able to sell enough to subsidise your hobby, but you will never make enough to pay for your time and expenses in terms of running a business. I�m not sure if that statement is true. Surely once you have bought your hives, the ongoing expenses are small. I would be interested in making my living from a smallholding. In which case, you do a variety of things which contribute to your overall income, and I�m sure bee keeping would be a useful addition to the other produce I would like to be involved in.

Hi Andrew!

Welcome to Downsizer -

Nice to meet you! It is *very* useful here if you're looking to go into smallholding. I reckon theres someone here for all aspects of everything, and information learned from first hand.

The idea of supplementing your income with bees is a good way to look at it. You'll never get rich, but there'll be a chunk of the year where you make a small chunk of money. Don't overlook ongoing costs of doing it properly - repainting, repairing and replacing hives. Cost of jars and labels. Cost of whatever this years treatment of bees is. Cost of replacing queens, or even entire colonies. Also don't underestimate how much graft getting a honey harvest is! The extracting and carting full supers of honey is one bit of the process they don't tend to teach you on courses. Whatever you don't learn on the course though, you'll probably find someone on here who's been through it. Colony collapse included.

Like I say welcome on board, I think you'll have fun here.

Arvo

Mrs Baggins

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 837
Location: West Kent

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 09 9:17 pm Post subject:

Hi Andrew - a big WELCOME to downsizer! You are going to love it here!

My tutor says pretty much the opposite. He saysa you can make a fair bit of cash out beekeeping but so much that you could give up work or anything. I was just shocked to find that you could make any money at it at all! My foray into beekeeping came from a desire to have honey bees pollinating my beloved garden - and if I got a pot or two of honey a year - then that was a bonus!

My personal objectives remain the same. I don't care about making money at it. BUT if I am going to keep hives elsewhere - it does become more of an issue because I have to cover the extra outlay.

Hmmm...

Richard - There are not many other beekeepers 'round these part tbh. When I went into a local farm shops to ask about them buying honey from me they were really keen. I suppose it would all be part of the learning curve...

Arvo - Good summary of the overhead costs there... thx! I think I'd like to do a bit of queen rearing in the future, my tutor is really up on it and I think it would be interesting.

I really am getting all caught up in this bee stuff... it is SOOOO addictive... what have I done??

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