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Tadpole rescue?
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Downsizer Forum Index -> Conservation and Environment
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VM



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1748
Location: Lincolnshire
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 14 8:24 pm    Post subject: Tadpole rescue? Reply with quote
    

We have inherited a big pond full of fish in our 'new' house. Obviously last year all the frogspawn got eaten by the fish.

We have decided to make an additional small pond so we can have baby frogs in the garden. Today I saw the frogs all 'at it' and mounds of frogspawn. But we have not yet made the frog-friendly pond.

So I thought of rescuing the frogspawn and putting it in our redundant aquarium before it gets eaten. Have vague memories of collecting frogspawn when at school and keeping it in jars.

So, if I do this, how long do I have to get the pond made, before today's spawn turns into baby frogs?

jamanda
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35082
Location: Devon
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 14 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

30 t0 40 days plus 12 to 14 weeks according to the BBC

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46362
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 14 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

done frogpole and toadpole rescues

tank is fine with 3 inches of water ,put a brick under one end and earth/moss/bark segment above the water line,use a bubbler,

feed fish flakes ,daphnia and blood worms(from good pet suppliers) to the poles ,

when they reach a decent size (large pea with a tail )add a few drops of iodine (chemists first aid type is fine )to stimulate thyroxine production and get them to change into froglets/toadlets and they climb up the slope onto "land" .adding iodine reduces cannibalism and gives a greater number than most wild systems can for a given number of poles

feed up on fruit flies then baby stick insects until the froglets are about ten pence size .release in a suitable place at night to avoid bird predation til they distribute into the environment

putting 72 frogs in a box is well funny

i kept one toad til it was full grown but that takes a bit of effort re feeding etc

it sounds difficult but it aint if you follow the method

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46362
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 14 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

ps a new pond is unlikely to have enough food for the poles hence my tank suggestion

VM



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1748
Location: Lincolnshire
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 14 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Thank you for all that! Will give it a go.

Bit sentimental but I like frogs and don't like fish so it makes me annoyed to see the fish eating all the spawn.

For myself I wouldn't have fish, but this large and thriving goldfish colony has been in the pond for at least ten years before we got here, and partner likes them, so guess they are staying.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46362
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 14 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

if you go for the pond option or outside tank the ability to mesh the top and thickish marginal vegetation will reduce predation

dragonfly nymphs can be a problem in outdoor frog ponds but if you stick to floating plants rather than reeds etc it should be ok

Nell Merionwen



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 16300
Location: Beautiful Derbyshire
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 14 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Would kelp work for iodine content?
incidentally I misread this title as "tadpole racing". Seems that would be bit like nailing jelly to a wall.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46362
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 14 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

kelp might have too high a salt content and could ferment but well washed and them burned to ash might work if you could work out dosage

with medical iodine solution 2 drops per gallon done twice a week apart seems to work in a tank , the second dose gets the stragglers

ps jamjars usually kill em all at quite an early stage via oxygen deprivation,without a bubbler a big surface area per egg is required and keeping the temp about 12 to 15 c helps with o2 solubilityand growth rate .a sunny windowsill is a bad place to put em .

elodia canadanasis is a good plant to oxgenate frog ponds

for fruit flies a mix of a mashed banana with half a multivit/mineral tablet and half a teaspoon o fthe type nappy rash cream that has nipogen in the ingredients to prevent fungi is a good media ,takes about 10 days at room temp for the egg /larvae/fly cycle to establish so make them at weekly intervals .in most places there will be enough fruit flies to use wild attracted stock as they cant resist a fermenting nana

if keeping the froglets until late in the year fishing maggots will provide flies during the summer but beware the amityville horror

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 14 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Could you put them in the pond with the fish, but in a mesh bucket type thing? It's how you raise fry in a tank, so they get to share the nutrients, benefit from the larger water capacity, which is healthier, and keeps the fish away.Use something like a wire waste paper basket in the leg of a pair of tights.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46362
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 14 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

the basket thing might work but as poles are nearly all mouth and gut they eat things nearly as big as themselves so if the mesh would keep them in it would keep their food out and cause cannibalism

tights for instance would be far too fine mesh to let food in ,

if the poles were fed it is an option worth trying with a few but i recon that a full clump would very quickly become a few .they have a very strong instinct to eat their siblings if food is the limiting factor on growth.it sort of makes sense as a survival mechanism but to raise maximum froglets feeding is needed in anything but a low stock density in a food rich pond

in the wild most are eaten by other poles rather than predators which concentrates the available food into the fittest poles and also collects the available iodine for thyroxine production to trigger metamorphosis

the prime control on the egg to frog ratio is food supply followed by iodine availability

ps separate toad and frog at the egg stage cos the first born will eat the hindmost if the toads hatch first ,toads are fewer and bigger and in strings not clumps like frogs as spawn

Last edited by dpack on Tue Mar 11, 14 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46362
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 14 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

froggy advice

these folk seem to be fairly good at explaining basics of all things damp and hoppy

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16101

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 14 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Look out for newts too. They rather like frog poles, but not toad poles.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46362
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 14 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

i think the uk toads are unpleasant/toxic to eat from a very early stage where as froggies are delicious ,poison arrow frogs etc are the exceptions with frogs

i was asked if i would try breeding p a frogs by the centre for life studies/amphibian dept at london zoo years ago and declined cos of the habitat control issues(create and maintaining aquatic and terrestial and live tree in one terrarium is not easy) , the potential for escapees getting on telly and that handling them is rather dodgy even with gloves etc manytree frogs are tricky but they dont kill you like the p a species if you are a bit careless

ps try not to handle any frogs/toads ungloved as they can catch things from you and vice versa ,tis a small risk to you but can be a big riask for them.if they are in the road or whatever just grab em but as a matter of froggy wrangling disposable gloves etc are sensible .

pps a tame toad will sit your mouth with it's head poking out for a bit without releasing toxins but dont

VM



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1748
Location: Lincolnshire
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 14 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Arrgh, this is sort of helpful but is beginning to seem more complicated than I feel I can get my head round. I will try and look it a bit at a time!

At the moment the spawn, which is two days old, is out of the pond and in an old, biggish aquarium that we used to have goldfish in a long, long time ago. I have put some weed from the pond in with it and could get a bubbler but don't have one at the moment.

Aquarium is currently in the garage, by a window, not in direct sun.

Obviously at this stage they are dots, not moving.

I don't think we have anything suitable which we could use to try and keep them in the pond but separate from the fish.

Last year's spawn disappeared from the pond long before it hatched - I assumed it was the fish what ate it, just because there are so ***ing many of them - but perhaps it was something else.

How long before they turn from dots to poles and start eating each other, or dying??

This is definitely frog, not toadspawn. We had toadspawn in a previous pond back in Manchester - got very excited but frog poles hatched first and I watched them eat the toadspawn all up.

Later, when the garden was full of tiny froglets, I discovered that my lurchers were munching them up like crisps or peanuts.

VM



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1748
Location: Lincolnshire
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 14 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

And no, I won't do that thing you said with a toad.


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