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Behemoth
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
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dougal
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
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Mr Solar
Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 10
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 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 05 8:29 am Post subject: Micro wind turbines and other similer technologies |
 
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My 400 watt 3 phase micro turbine is installed at the higest point of my roof to gain the maximum wind energy along with 6 x 55 watt PV panels and 44 vacuum tubes for my hot water and support to my space heating with a loft air source heat pump as the back up.
My 24 volt PV and wind system reduces my electricty by around 1,800 kW a year.
I see no point in grid connection, I have a battery bank system and when you all get power cuts, all my lights will still be on, my solar pump and gas boiler pump working and a socket for a TV.
It seems everybody is being sold the concept that a grid tie system is the way foward with the oppotunity to gain 0.2p a kwh (1,000 watts or 10 x 100 watt light bulbs) from the utility?
What everybody in this country needs to start thinking about is independance from these corparate bodies who are loaning you power, energy and water for the rest of your lives.
My gas bill for this 3 bed home with 3 people and 2 dogs for the last 3 months of hot water was �4.50p, what was yours?
Your first investment into Micro renewable energy/power and water technologies after you have changed all your bulbs to low energy, all levels of home insulation have been done, is in solar water heating, a world proven technology growing in demand at 30% a year and to cheap to meter, thats why this government does not back it.
Solar water heating unlike PV and wind are mainly grid connected to be able to meter the power to your home, solar hot water is direct off your roof, bypassing the meter, so cannot ne metered.
If 1 million homes were installed with one of todays solar water heating systems which uses your existing hot water tanks (self install around 1,200 pounds) each one would reduce Co2 by 1/2 ton a year if gas was used to heat the water and 1 ton if by electricty. One million homes would diplace 168 million in gas sales a year, bad news for British Gas and the Government who take the tax.
Every time energy and materials rise in cost, so will the cost of a solar hot water system. Every day households put off the investment becouse of perveived pay back, the more each year you pay the utility.
Look at playing with wind after you have masted some form of independance from the suns energy and the rain which falls on your roof for 70% of your water needs.
Mr Solar |
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Milo
Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 342
Location: Oop North-ish.
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homeinsulationservices
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 24
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tahir
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex
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dougal
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
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homeinsulationservices
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 24
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dougal
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
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homeinsulationservices
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 24
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dougal
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 06 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that.
As far as the *economics* of power *sales* is concerned, the commercial arrangement is absolutely central.
Good Energy seem to be currently "creatively" mis-interpreting the ROC scheme, which is why I asked.
There is a backbencher's Private Member's Bill making its way through Parliament at present. (Currently at Committee Stage, 3rd reading and the Lords still to be navigated.)
The DTI said this, in Novemer 05, about the new proposals
| The DTI wrote: |
| The second new clause would simplify the issue of the Renewables Obligation Certificates for microgenerators by removing administrative obstacles. It would allow agents to act on behalf of microgenerators and amalgamate their output. It will also remove the requirement for a sale and buy-back agreement. Currently the legislation requires that generators that consume their own electricity must first sell it to a supplier before buying it back for their own consumption. |
https://www.dti.gov.uk/renewables/renew_5.1.2.2.htm
see the second to last paragraph.    
Since *paying* to use your own electricity is unattractive, I wonder whether folks are assuming that the new law is actually already in place?
It certainly seems that Good are amalgamating microgenerators output, and not actually metering (or paying for) the exported electricity - just distributing the ROC bounty, although the generator gets to consume that same (his own generated) power for free. Which appears to me to be a creative mis-interpretation of what the DTI think the position is.
In the Windpower article on this site
| Jerome wrote: |
| It is now possible for an owner of a small turbine to purchase and run a relatively cheap export meter for small generators called a non-half hourly, NHH meter, similar to your domestic supply meter. The meter costs the turbine owner about �50 per year to operate. There are electricity companies that will buy any excess that you generate. |
And that seems to be what the DTI think as well.
You use what you like of your own, for free. Any surplus is exported and sold at a price that depends on when it was generated (needing an expensive meter) and ROCs can be claimed on the *exported* surplus renewable energy sold to the Electricity Co for *resale*.
Good work it differently. You just meter the total that you generate (simple and cheap), and Good claim the ROCs on that gross amount. They then pay you nearly as much as the ROCs are worth. (4.5p per unit against a ROC value of around 5p/unit.) And they don't give a monkey's what happens to the energy you've generated - which I think would be a surprise to the DTI. Of course they'll charge you for whatever you need to draw from the grid, at maybe 10p/unit.
What I'd like to know is whether the whole industry is doing it the way Good are, and therefore whether the new law (if it gets through) is just legitemising the current position?
Or would it be foolish to plan for the future on the basis of Good's method? |
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tahir
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex
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dougal
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
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Milo
Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 342
Location: Oop North-ish.
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dougal
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
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you'll need to clarify exactly the position on the use of your own and metering (and its cost).
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