Inventions and patents

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Inventions and patents

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Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 6:02 pm Post subject: Inventions and patents

I suppose it's many peoples dream to invest something and make a fortune and I keep remembering the best way to invent something is to actually solve a common problem rather than sit in the shed making things.

In a strange flash of inspiration I've come up with an interesting idea that could be worth investigating. However, it would be beyond my scope of developing so I would need to seek help. What's stopping anyone I share the idea with from simply stealing it if there's any mileage in it? There's a few adverts on TV from companies but how do I protect my idea?

Has anyone ever invented something and obtained some form of patent?

I bet the idea will turn out to be useless but I thought this would make an interesting topic if anyone has ever invented something.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 6:04 pm Post subject:
Mr Bayliss of wind up radio fame is involved with a body that helps inventors to find investors etc. Can't remember the name of it though

Silas

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 6:17 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Mr Bayliss of wind up radio fame is involved with a body that helps inventors to find investors etc. Can't remember the name of it though

Yes, good advice. He made almost nothing out of the wind up radio, but he will help you learn from his mistakes.

jema
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28237
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 6:26 pm Post subject:
I did an application a few years back, turned out the idea had been done but I may be able to dredge something from memory about the process.

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 6:36 pm Post subject:

jema wrote:

I did an application a few years back, turned out the idea had been done

but I may be able to dredge something from memory about the process.

I bet mine has been and it was decided to not be good enough for market (or soooo good some large company is sitting on the idea).

Is there a way of applying with only sketches without actually build a working design?

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28237
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 6:38 pm Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

jema wrote:

I did an application a few years back, turned out the idea had been done

but I may be able to dredge something from memory about the process.

Yes, we did not bother building anything.

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 7:00 pm Post subject:
Cab should be able to offer some advice, he holds several patents. (That's what he said when he asked for money anyway).

tawny owl

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 563
Location: Hampshire

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 9:10 pm Post subject:

I'm shocked how much it is to file a patent, particularly if you want it to operate in more than one country. I think it would be much fairer if it was a small amount to begin with and then one had to pay a percentage of the money brought in by it. It seems unfair that it should be the same whether it goes belly-up or earns millions - I'm sure the initial cost puts a lot of would-be entrepreneurs off.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 05 10:44 am Post subject:

I've got, errm... I dunno. Seven? Eight? Something like that. Thinking about another one.

Intellectual property (IP) rule number 1; the only safe IP is the IP you haven't told anyone about. There are no exceptions to this rule.

IP rule number 2, the only patent worth applying for is one that'll make money; the initial filing will cost you, the subsequent full filing and maintenance of the patent will cripple you. I've been lucky, in that my own patents have been funded by other organisations.

IP rule number 3, you are not going to be made rich by this. There ARE exceptions to this rule, but don't count on being one. Really.

IP rule number 4, a European patent is a great thing to have; pity you need to worry about America, Japan, China, India... A truly protection worthy idea is a very expensive thing to own. You're going to want backing sooner or later if this idea is going to be applicable (or copyable) anywhere else in the world.

Ultimately, you can try to file anything, but you're going to want to do it properly or don't do it at all. You're going to want to do some sketches if that it appropriate (and those sketches should be black and white line drawings or something equally simple; rule of thumb, can it be faxed without losing what it is?), you're going to want to write it up well using your best information, and you're going to want to be extremely thorough with the claims part of the patent.

I don't know how good the little organisations to help inventors are. I'd be curious, though.

There are tools that allow you to search patent filings for keywords. Might be worth looking into that to see what the prior art is.

Forager

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 144

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 05 3:18 pm Post subject:

Can anything be patented and does it need to be? Is there an alternative to a patent? I'm guessing you can't patent just anything as there are so many items on sale from different manufactuers that are the same such as, to keep it topical, a garden fork. Or did the first company to make a garden fork slip up and simply not patent it?

So what is the criteria that says yes you should patent something?

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 05 3:43 pm Post subject:

Forager wrote:

Can anything be patented and does it need to be?

You can file a patent on pretty near anything. Doesn't mean it will be granted. A patent has to be novel and non obvious to someone in an applicable field.

Does it need to be? Depends on what it is.

Quote:

Is there an alternative to a patent? I'm guessing you can't patent just anything as there are so many items on sale from different manufactuers that are the same such as, to keep it topical, a garden fork. Or did the first company to make a garden fork slip up and simply not patent it?

If you invented something new like that now, it MIGHT be worth patenting it. Suppose you've got an idea for a new kind of garden fork.

You'd need to have the patent granted not just here in the UK, but around the world. That gets really expensive really fast. Then you need to do something to protect that patent; someone else will muscle in and challenge the patent legally (guaranteed with something like that), and that'll cost you. And then someone will start pirating your design (also guaranteed in this case). And fighting THAT off will cost you.

Of course, your patent also only grants you exclusivity for so many (15, I believe) years. If the cost of protecting your IP is likely to be more than you'll make out of the patent, then it isn't worth it.

Quote:

So what is the criteria that says yes you should patent something?

The problem is that's a HUGE question.

Forager

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 144

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 05 11:08 pm Post subject:
Thanks that makes it a lot clearer. I have been mulling an idea over for a while (not a new garden fork!) but when I looked at the patent costs a year ago I put it on hold.

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 05 6:29 am Post subject:

Depending in the nature of the idea, might it not be cheaper to fund an advertising campaign (not the big glossy expensive sort obviously) that spends a while hinting that Mr X will shortly be trailling/manufacturing/selling his amazing new garden fork and make it very clear its your invention. With the addition of copyrigt dated drawings and so on, doesnt that help indicate that it was your idea thank you very much?
Or is that just an opening for a big company to patent your copyrighted idea and gazump you? (Can someone patent someone else copyrighted work though?)
Its all very confusing

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 05 1:39 pm Post subject:
You can't successfully patent someone elses idea, if there's 'prior art' then the examiners will kill your patent. As for copyrighting a design... Well, you could try, but I suspect it would be extremely difficult; a patent protects you if someone else comes out with something very, very similar. Copyright is somewhat more hazy.

mandycharlie

Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 211

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 05 9:40 am Post subject:
https://gb.espacenet.com/search97cgi/s97_cgi.exe?Action=FormGen&Template=gb/EN/home.hts This is a useful site to search for existing patents.

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