The rich should pay more tax

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The rich should pay more tax
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Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 5:53 am Post subject:

Chez wrote:

I think everyone should give fifty percent of their earnings to the state and those with less than x, where x = what is deemed to be a decent amount of money, get their income bumped up to that.

Sorted.

So those who can't be bothered to work will get a nice income? What's the incentive for others to work?

What would happen would be a huge number of people with movable skills would simple move and the country would quickly be broke. (Actually it would not be able to borrow so it would be broke overnight). Perhaps then those that are left would be made to work so, as you say, sorted.

Shan

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 9075
Location: South Wales

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 6:20 am Post subject:
Might as well become a communist country.

jamanda
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35057
Location: Devon

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 6:24 am Post subject:
From each according to his ability to each according to his needs. Darn good idea.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 6:38 am Post subject:

Jamanda wrote:

From each according to his ability to each according to his needs.

I wouldn't argue against that. Has any country ever come remotely close?

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 7:18 am Post subject:

Shan wrote:

Might as well become a communist country.

Worked for Cuba.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 7:28 am Post subject:
There was a chap on the wireless yesterday making a lot of sense. We (the country) printed a lot of money and gave it to the banks to bail them out. They banked it. That does not help the economy. Money only helps the economy if it is moving. So he was suggesting we print some more money and give it to people who will spend it...

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28238
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 8:43 am Post subject:

It really grates when I hear arguments that come down to:

"To make the Rich work harder, you pay them more, you make the poor work harder, you pay them less"

�150,000 before you pay an extra 10% tax is really not a lot, that sort of taxation was the norm throughout the world before the 80's, since then a rot has set in that more than ever has placed greed as the norm.

As long as you have money it does not matter if you were a banker who trashed the economy or a manufacturer who has doubled profits by moving manufacturing to a sweatshop in China.

The genuine entrepreneurs are the people who develop working business ideas that contribute to the economy, and in my experience they are as a rule a less greedy and more useful bunch than the scummy people hiding behind them, asset strippers who are their to "make" money for themselves and to hell with the rest of us.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 8:49 am Post subject:
Which is why I'd like a decision based on facts rather than politics or even something which seems close to a spiritual belief amongst some.

Shan

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 9075
Location: South Wales

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 11:18 am Post subject:
Yes, well it is forever going to be the 'deserving poor' and the 'underserving b*stard rich'. Poor people are incapable of greed.... apparently.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 11:36 am Post subject:
Anybody remember the '50s? They were starting to invent robots and cheap energy, and were promising a future of luxury and leisure time...

oldish chris

Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 1:56 pm Post subject:

Hairyloon wrote:

Anybody remember the '50s?
They were starting to invent robots and cheap energy, and were promising a future of luxury and leisure time...

I do, we used to moan about nationalised utilities - GPO phones, British Rail etc. We used to complain about over-manning, lazy staff.

Now we complain about 2.5 million unemployed, housing shortages and costs, an even worse rail system, dubious sales techniques from utility companies, an epidemic of stress related illnesses, the homeless, beggars and debt.

We did have riots though, complaining about immigrants IIRC.

We also had British owned manufacturing companies.

and full employment - so no need to pick on the unemployed and the disabled.

marigold

Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12458
Location: West Sussex

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 3:03 pm Post subject:

The disabled were, by and large, banged up in institutions in the '50s (being abused in a variety of ways by their "carers") and those that weren't were often subject to utterly vile abuse. People with "nerves" and shirkers were despised just as much then as now. '50s society was restricted and judgmental, women were expected to know their place, divorce and illegitimacy were horrible stigmas. Most people croaked within a very few years of reaching retirement age...

But there were plenty of boring, low-paid, physically demanding jobs to be had.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 3:36 pm Post subject:

marigold wrote:

But there were plenty of boring, low-paid, physically demanding jobs to be had.

I think you may have missed my point.
Many of those jobs are now done by robots: they have delivered on their promise...
Except that somebody has moved the goalposts.
What was luxury then is considered poverty now. We are all caught up in an endless drive to want more and "better", and almost all of it bought on credit.

Why not pull back and accept the vision of the future that our past has delivered.
Or at least stop and think about a vision of the future that we want to deliver to the next generation.
The one we seem set on delivering looks pretty bleak.

marigold

Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12458
Location: West Sussex

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 4:04 pm Post subject:

Hairyloon wrote:

marigold wrote:

But there were plenty of boring, low-paid, physically demanding jobs to be had.

Totally agree with you, I was responding to chris' comment about picking on the unemployed and disabled.

Talking to a disabled friend this morning we agreed that although disabled people cop a lot of crap and are generally written off as worthless (despite much blahing about "access to work" etc etc), able-bodied working people are also abused in a different way - expected to work longer and longer hours for less and less pay, whilst being monitored constantly (apparently some civil servants are allowed 12 minutes a day for toilet breaks

).

If we shared things out a bit better instead of trying to squeeze every possible drop of profit out of everything for the benefit of people who already have more than enough money and stuff to last several lifetimes, and fighting over who deserves what most, life could be quite pleasant.

oldish chris

Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 11 4:46 pm Post subject:

Shan wrote:

Might as well become a communist country.

The thing about the pre-Thatcher era was that we had a "mixed economy", part state owned, part private. Even Tories such as SuperMac were happy with this.

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