Treating wood.

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Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 05 9:28 pm Post subject:
How long does something like oak or chestnut last without treating? Both are woods renowned for long lasting and it'd be interesting comparing untreated timbers to treated soft wood.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46230
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 05 8:54 pm Post subject:
oak and chestnut are very long lasting if large section is used . charring is also said to help seal the surface and cut ends against insect attack .oak below ground chestnut above .that isnt cheap though .as to how long , well bog oak is thousands of years old

judyofthewoods

Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 804
Location: Pembrokeshire

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 05 11:39 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

oak and chestnut are very long lasting if large section is used . charring is also said to help seal the surface and cut ends against insect attack .oak below ground chestnut above .that isnt cheap though .as to how long , well bog oak is thousands of years old

For oak one must use the heartwood only, as the sap wood will rot quickly and is loved by woodworm. Bog oak lasts long because of the constant wet conditions in oxigen starved water. Its the interface which is most vulnerable to rot, where the timber is wet/dry on and off.
And what about a living fence? Any tree or shrub (but must be same species throughout) can be grown in a dense row, then woven and the intersections made to fuse. Best to choose a species that is relatively fast growing, but not palatable or accessable to livestock. A fast growing willow hedge can be planted in two rows with the gap between filled with earth into which the willow will root and bind the whole together. In Germany they make soundproof walls along motorways like that.
Here a link to a website which shows all manner of grown structures - fences, buildings, sculptures:
https://www.treedome.com/index.html

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 05 10:26 am Post subject:
chestnut used to be grown extensively in kent and coppiced for use as fence posts - as recently as '95 according to my lecture notes on coppicing for that year!

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 05 11:16 am Post subject:

Behemoth wrote:

To ask another question is tannalised (Sp?) wood environmentally dubious? - i thought new treatment methods/chemicals had been itroduced to reduce leaching.

From my local company:
https://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/pages/jakcure/process.aspx
"...deep penetration gives lasting protection which allows us to give a 25 year guarantee on Jakcured timber.
Jakcure will not soil hands or clothing and is harmless to man, animal and plant life. Non-inflammable and non-corrosive."

judyofthewoods

Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 804
Location: Pembrokeshire

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 05 10:25 pm Post subject:

For deep penetration you could try an old method which does, however, take a while to prepare your timber, and can only be done if you are going to fell the timber yourself or have it felled. The old method was to cut down the tree, leave the foliage on (so broadleaf trees would have to be felled in the growing season), then secure a preservative drenched rag to the butt and allow the foliage's transpiration to draw the preservative into the timber. The rag would need some outer moisture proof wrapping, and would need periodic repeat drenching. Another method (don't know if it works, but would seem an easier solution) is to leave the tree standing, cut a deep ring around the base and push some rope or rags into the cut and drench those with your chosen preservative. You'd have to do some research on how long, how much and what type of preservative is suitable. In the past, I believe that would have been creosote, though probably made from wood tar, rather than coal tar, which, I was told by an expert, is not quite as bad as coal tar creosote. Hasn't creosote become outlawed?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46230
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 05 12:14 am Post subject:
wish i said hedge , it does seem a better idea than fence

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 05 5:49 am Post subject:

judyofthewoods wrote:

Hasn't creosote become outlawed?

Not for professional use I think.

I'd also like to vote for a hedge if it's possible. Or some form of cheap fence with hedging planted soon to replace it. I'm very impressed with my little hawthorn hedge that I layered after a couple of years and after about three years is a decent size.

Bernie66

Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 13967
Location: Eastoft

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 05 9:00 am Post subject:
Most big DIY sheds sell a "creosote substitute" which is virtually the same thing.. I lie fence posts in a bath of "creosote" for 48 hours before using them, messy but it seems to be effective.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46230
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 05 6:09 pm Post subject:
pallet fence with suitable planting to replace it ?

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 05 11:52 am Post subject:
Decided on post and wire fence with thorn hedge planted along it, cheap and will do the job until the hedge grows

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 05 12:12 pm Post subject:
What type of thorns? Hawthorn, balckthorn with a mix of wild roses? Holly or pyracanther (sp?)?

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 05 12:16 pm Post subject:
Mostly hawthorn and whitethorn. Was a bit worried about planting blackthorn with the kids around.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46230
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 05 12:47 pm Post subject:
seems good.you can easily add species as you find seeds , cuttings etc .not only a boundary but a resource for you and wildlife .well done .

Gervase

Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 8655

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 05 8:19 am Post subject:
Borax is a good preservative with no VOCs and a minimal impact on the environment. Borates have almost no mammalian toxicity, although they are poisonous to insects. That's the problem with wood treatment - it has to be toxic to the organisms that cause decomposition, which means that to get a completely environmentally neutral substance you'd have to sacrifice all its efficacy.

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