Black Rock hens - Point of lay.

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Black Rock hens - Point of lay.
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chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35935
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 12 7:45 pm Post subject:
And there are fewer people around with a bit of land who breed birds, too. Supply and demand and all that.

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 12 7:45 pm Post subject:
I'm polite too. If you don't like someone's ad then no-one's compelling you to buy from them.

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 12 7:53 pm Post subject:
I have been polite.

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 12 7:56 pm Post subject:
Wrong again. https://forum.downsizer.net/about60568.html

Surrey Dodger

Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 16

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 12 9:49 pm Post subject:

I suppose �15 for one chook may sound expensive but lets consider some costs here. Because the Black Rocks we deal with are the only true BR's, we have to pay the price from the one and only supplier. Not that I bemoan his prices for day old chicks. I know the hatchery follows a very intensive program to produce the right parent stock of the best quality. This is not a cheap system and certainly can be undercut by those using any old birds as parent stock. Unfortunately this does happen a lot and Eddie Lovett ends up spending a good deal of time and money chasing bogus breeders/sellers of the Black Rock name. Of course, this all adds to the cost of chick production sadly.

Then we have the cost of feed. Using best quality natural feeds with all of the right supplements, vitamins and additives means the cost of feed per bird is about what you say you are buying a Warren in Cheshire for. Feed cost is universal so although your Cheshire farm may be on a much larger scale than we are, it would have to be astronomical to make noticable savings over what we pay. Either that or possibly the quality of chick feed is not comparable.

Needless to say the cost of land, fencing, housing, feeders, infra-red lights and the myriad of other capital items again all adds to the cost on a per bird basis. Then there is medical costs and we work very closely with our vets on an ongoing basis. We have a mantra on our small holding for all our livestock and that is, we want an animal welfare system and conditions which you will expect to find in operation in one hundred years time. looking at where it was one hundred ago, it means we are aiming very high.

And then there is the matter of tax on any profits,,, heavne forbid we should make one

And just for good measure, and perhaps in some way to explain why buying more attracts a small discount. We are not really expecting anyone to turn up and buy just one but if they di, allowing for selecting the bird the want, catching and boxing it (in your box), writing out the receipt and banking the money would alone take twenty minutes or so. Even if you said my business was to charge only �20 an hour (which would equal bankruptcy) that would be about �7 just for the point of sale cost.

So, I'm sorry to write at length but I do feel that one should be clear what my wife and I are doing. We are not a fly by night operation using cheap and poor methods of production and I would like to think that by charging as we do, we will be able to eat and still be in business in years to come. Above all else, I know our birds leave here healthy and having had the best treatment we can give and that our buying customers will continue to treat our progeny in the same fashion.

I thank you

chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35935
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 12 9:59 pm Post subject:

The thing is, as you you sort of point out, it doesn't cost any less to raise hybrids than it does pure breeds; the inputs are exactly the same; and if you are doing it as a business, you need to make a profit. I don't like the idea of hybrids taking over the world, for all sorts of reason I have banged on about incessantly elsewhere - but I do think that there is a place for them.

I also think that there is an argument that many smaller and hobby breeders sell their birds too cheaply - as you rightly point out, the time is the important thing; and many small businesses don't factor that in properly. Hobbyists certainly don't.

I think �15 is a fair price for a good quality bird, particularly given that you are in the SE.

T.G

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Posts: 7280
Location: Somewhere you're not

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 12 11:12 pm Post subject:
I presume these are for egg only production? If you can't breed true they aint for breeding and at �15 per bird to produce they'd be an expensive chicken curry. So what egg laying capacity do they have, do they lay for a longer period, bigger eggs?

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 12 11:41 pm Post subject:
How long has Eddie Lovett been breeding these birds?

Surrey Dodger

Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 16

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 12 12:01 am Post subject:

I really must get that 'Salesman for Dummies' book

First off, Mr Lovett took over the breed lines from Mr. Peter Siddons who had been breeding the BR's for over 40 years before his retirement. A full, if little out of date history is here -

https://www.blackrockhens.co.uk/blackrockhatchery.html

(please note we are not on the agents map yet but we will be shortly)

The accepted laying ability of the Black Rock is generally between 280-300 eggs. Of course, this is in the first years and they do drop of their lay rates as they get older like all hens. However, they are well regarded for being able to maintain laying rates as they age better than those of other breeds. It is not unusal to hear of BR's still actively laying well even when over five years old. Not only are their laying days longer lived but the eggs they produce are generally large or extra large and are a rich brown in colour.

They are also extremely hardy birds which I (jokingly) attribute to their Glaswegian heridatary. Indeed, if you listen carefully, there is definitely a wee Scottish lilt in their clucking.

And one of the main reasons for their popularity amongst small holders is their disease resistances. They are all vaccinated against Marek's as a matter of course so please be aware of this if you intend to have them alongside non Marek vaccintaed birds. We recommend you don't mix vaccinated with non-vacinated.

As for using with curry, I can't vouch for that. Yes, they are a prime egg laying bird but they'll still make 2 or 3 kgs in weight and have been know to produce a reasonable carcass. However, I'd stick with using them as egg makers

Bebo

Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 12590
Location: East Sussex

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 12 6:01 am Post subject:

Bodger wrote:

Why should they be anymore expensive in the SE than anywhere else?

Because they are and because people are prepared to pay it. The nearest place to me that sells hybrids sells them for �17 a pop. In this area �15 is not unreasonable.

BadgerFace

Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 915
Location: Sussex

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 12 9:31 am Post subject:

Bebo wrote:

Bodger wrote:

Why should they be anymore expensive in the SE than anywhere else?

Because they are and because people are prepared to pay it. The nearest place to me that sells hybrids sells them for �17 a pop. In this area �15 is not unreasonable.

Ditto

chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35935
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 12 1:19 pm Post subject:
I've curried one. It was very nice!

kirstyfern

Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 1574
Location: Great Dunmow, Essex

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 12 7:02 pm Post subject:

I sell my POL hybrids for �15 - �20 (blue egg layers),

I also do quantity discounts, loyalty discounts, trade prices, etc, etc.

I am rearing small numbers, on average 200 a month, not 20,000 that the 'big boys' rear.

I feed better quality feed, buy in small bags, not in bulk.

I buy less chicks so I pay more for them and therefore more per bird for delivery.

My birds have a full vaccination programme. A lot of vaccines come in 1,000 doses, I'm using 200 doses and throwing the rest away - again more expense per bird.

Every week I have them costs me about 50p in feed, so that's �7.50 just in feed to 15 weeks, thats before vaccines, heat, light, bedding, labour, etc!

Assuming they all survive I can make a few quid, lose two in hundred I can lose my profit, add in a few cockerels - yes, even with sexed chicks this still happens, another loss; lose 10 in a hundred I'm in big trouble...

If I charged for my labour I'd be bankrupt, LOL!

BTW the cheapest 'warren' hens around here are �7.50 each...

I compare myself to the local deli rather than the tesco value range!

Surrey Dodger

Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 16

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 11:30 am Post subject:

Chez wrote:

I've curried one. It was very nice!

I tried that once with a rabbit. Tasted like .......... chicken

Surrey Dodger

Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 16

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 11:31 am Post subject:
One day Kirstyfern, we small producers will get it together on things like vaccines and other stuffs we have to buy in bulk, only to end up throwing most of it away

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