Blast at Hemmel-is everyone ok?

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dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 05 12:59 pm Post subject:

News 24 has just shown some pictures from a helicopter over central London, and satellite photography showing the plume.

It seems there is a temperature inversion, basically the weather putting a lid on the smoke - so it can't disperse more than a couple of thousand feet UP.
The plume looks to extend almost right across the northeast section of the M25.
It'll be down here around nightfall...
I expect the rain forecast for overnight will bring some rather unpleasant pollution to the ground. I'm a bit concerned about things like contamination of grazing land... Dunno how nasty the stuff is likely to be - but dieselly soot isn't going to be good.

BTW, people in Folkestone were woken by the explosion. I think this is more likely to be feeling it (shock wave through the ground) rather than the air-carried noise - which at 120 miles distant at 600 mph would have taken 1/5 hour (12 mins) to get here...

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 05 1:36 pm Post subject:
Seeing all that burning made me think about the pollution- that is clearly evident as it went up in one big go, but it was all intended to get dispersed into the atmosphere in the end, just we wouldn't notice it immediately

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28235
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 05 1:41 pm Post subject:
One report said the explosion was heard in Holland

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 05 4:04 pm Post subject:
I woke up at that time, which is most odd for me, looked at the clock and went back to sleep. One news report said that it had been heard in Norfolk, others say Holland, so I guess it isn't surprising that I woke up. IF it's oil, petrol and kerosene burning, then pollution will be short lived. Fingers crossed, eh?

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28235
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 05 4:07 pm Post subject:
My brother was called into work this morning, and apparently the pipe line is intact, but the fire is expected to burn for days.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28235
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 05 5:07 pm Post subject:
I also note we are on the smoke path, but then the area is vast https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4518500.stm

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 05 7:39 pm Post subject:

I'm a little disappointed at the vagueness of some of the reporting of the plume affected area (even East/West confusion at the BBC this morning) - and the associated weather forecasting and prediction of affected areas.
And this is with a plume that is highly visible.
Thank heavens its not an invisible radioactive plume...

Much though I approve of biodiesel, I am well aware of the toxicity of *mineral* diesel fuel to wildlife.
And uncontrolled burning with incomplete combustion is likely to vapourise some unburnt fuel. Which would then condense on the soot... I think there's likely to be appreciable quantities of Dioxins there as well. I don't need to be told that the plume "mainly" consists of CO2, some CO and soot. One expects those with *any* fire. The question is what else is there? What are the contaminants?
Anyway, there's going to be a mess...
"Its a hard rain a-gonna fall"

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 05 7:58 pm Post subject:

dougal wrote:

The question is what else is there? What are the contaminants?

Some dioxins, assorted sulfur compounds, some benzene and other mixed up organic chickenwire, mid chain length and heavier hydrocarbons, that kind of thing. Nothing I'm too worried about for the long term, it's amazing the way most of that stuff breaks down in the soil, but short term it's messy and unpleasant.

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 05 8:28 pm Post subject:
I had thought of Dioxins as being rather long-lived... {shrug} As above, its herbivores, rather than humans, that I would expect to be at risk. Fortunately, there's not many crops being harvested right now.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 05 9:02 pm Post subject:

dougal wrote:

I had thought of Dioxins as being rather long-lived... {shrug}

Ish. They won't break down quickly, but you're better asking whether they'll persist as harmful compounds in an accessible place in the environment. And does this present a significant increase in risk above what you're exposed to in the South East anyway.

It's more burning plastics than fuel oils that'll produce dioxins; as yet, we don't know what other crap went up with the fuel; on the whole, I'm not too concerned about the long term damage the fuel will do. When seeking planning for depots like the one that went off, things like leaking into the water table are taken into account. Where this cloud might be a problem will be if a lot of crap comes down in the catchment area for a reservoir.

Quote:

As above, its herbivores, rather than humans, that I would expect to be at risk. Fortunately, there's not many crops being harvested right now.

As for coming down on land, as you say it's bare soil at the moment, but it could be the ruin of winter wheat and winter rape crops. If you think way back to when the Braer went down and spewed its oil all over Shetland in the storm, a lot of people thought the worst, but soil microbes quickly dealt with the worst of it and the land was back into production before long.

I'm hopeful. I REALLY hope that it isn't misplaced hope.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 05 9:58 pm Post subject:
There was much less smoke this afternoon, than earlier and although we can see the glow in the sky, it doesn't seem to be so bad, although I haven't seen any news reports this afternoon. I can't imagine they would be any good at predicting stuff - they can't even count! There were four blasts that we heard here - defintitley!

nettie

Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 5888
Location: Suffolk

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 05 10:42 pm Post subject:
Didn't hear any bang here, mind you, I didn't get in till 2am so was out for the count. We got a light hazy smog here in Essex around 2 pm though, and could see a distinct dark layer of cloud low on the horizon. It' s all a bit surreal.

Milo

Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 342
Location: Oop North-ish.

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 05 10:49 pm Post subject:

Quote:

IF it's oil, petrol and kerosene burning, then pollution will be short lived.

Pollution including GHGs?

Four days of that sort of fire puts our vehicle mileage reducing efforts into an odd perspective, doesn't it.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 05 8:12 pm Post subject:
Sort of - Its a petrol logistics centre, and if we didn't (collectively, I mean) use so much petrol, then so much wouldn't need to be distributed and stored, and wouldn't have been hanging around in the first place. Can see why people get discouraged though

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46223
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 05 4:29 pm Post subject:

cab wrote:

dougal wrote:

The question is what else is there? What are the contaminants?

+ c particulates , co and co2 .pretty much the same as when it is used in cars ,heating ,planes etc . .how much more is torched up in motors everyday .?.there are some ugly organic compounds come off burning wood though .

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