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OP

Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 4661
Location: Yorkshire

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 07 12:36 pm Post subject:

jema wrote:

All depends on what the Java is doing of course! anyone remember the Visual Basic Ambulance debacle?

Vaguely ... but only a poor workman blames his tools.

Regarding scoop's comment, the .Net IDE is also free, as well as being a superb development environment. I'm talking about the free "Express" editions of course, which frankly are so good I wonder why anyone would use the full Visual Studio. Of course these are only any use for writing .Net apps so no cross platform capability (and like Java have a big runtime library).

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28235
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 07 1:01 pm Post subject:

I don't think you can always blame the workman.

It was no doubt a higher level decision to use VB, and an interpreter can simply not be up to the task.

That was my conundrum when I was faced with the issue, the old hands were complacent or pretty insistent that the interpreted language be used, but they were totally wrong.

Over the next decade I actually become responsible for maintaining and improving the interpreted language, and optimised it quite a bit and I know full well just what was possible with the language and that the project would have been doomed, and I as the workman would not have had a chance in hell of making it work.

The solution I pushed through was to write 90% of the code in "c" and use the Interpreters rather decent VB like facilities for non speed critical functions, and use its great internal cross platform API to develop an application that would work on both Unix and Windows

OP

Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 4661
Location: Yorkshire

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 07 1:09 pm Post subject:
Responsibility for project success or failure lies with the project manager. If a decision was taken to use an interpreted language which had inadequate performance, ultimately that is down to the project manager. OK, perhaps he was mis-informed by an over-enthusiastic programmer, but that's what project management was about. So yes, I would blame the "manager", not the tools.

Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22780
Location: In the 17th century

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 07 10:25 am Post subject:
Ooh, Netbeans 6.0 (final) is released... A.

Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22780
Location: In the 17th century

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 07 6:56 pm Post subject:

Barefoot Andrew wrote:

Ooh, Netbeans 6.0 (final) is released...
A.

And with a memory footprint of about 500Mbs, plus 500Mbs ish for VMware running Ubuntu, virtualisation isn't for ageing door-stop PCs...

A.

Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22780
Location: In the 17th century

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 08 6:50 pm Post subject:

Hmm, Netbeans has a particularly annoying "feature".

If you press F11 to build the "main project", it will build your app along with any dependent libraries. You can then press F6 to run the app.

If you press F6 instead, it will only build the app - and not any libraries, but will still go ahead and run the app anyway. Your app then misbehaves because a library change hasn't been rebuilt, and the debugger gives confusing/incorrect info*. The times I've done this now...

A.

(* similar to trying to single-step through a heavily optimised bit of C - you know, debugger jumping around annoyingly all over the place).

happytechie

Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 408
Location: Surrey (at the mo.)

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 08 6:59 pm Post subject:

alot of modern exe code actually run in a virtual machine. Java does obviously, .NET is effectively a virtual machine running on the x86 architecture via windows. VB6 also runs inside the VB6 runtime environment that is effectively a virtual machine.

Unless you're writing C / C++ that compiles to native object code you're running in some sort of abstracted virtual machine.

wrt development environments, the best ones in order and in my opinion are:

netbeans < eclipse < Visual C++ 6 < Visual studio 2003 < VS 2005 < VS 2008

the swing development bits in netbeans are starting to get there though, I've just put it on this laptop (6.1 on ubuntu), I'll have a go at it soon perhaps, it's been a while.

In other news, I looked at some source code from about 2003 and actually fixed a bug in it today!

Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22780
Location: In the 17th century

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 08 7:05 pm Post subject:
IMHO the swing development tools in Netbeans are great for prototyping, but not so good for real development. Sprawlware! A.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 08 11:07 pm Post subject:

Barefoot Andrew wrote:

Sprawlware!

Is that an adult website?

Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22780
Location: In the 17th century

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 12 2:23 pm Post subject:

Hmm. I'm a long-term user of this software (it's one of my main tools), but my loyalty is being sorely tested at the moment.

I've been having problems for a while now with 6.9.1 getting its knickers in a twist and going into a perpetual s-l-o-w mode - this is a powerful machine for heaven's sake.

This weekend I upgraded to 7.1.2. The upgrade itself has been a painful experience with a raft of hiccups. And now the C/C++ editing environment is refusing to see any of the #defines or include paths I've configured into the project. And I've not tried the Java editing environment yet.

There has been a great deal of cursing.
A.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 12 7:42 pm Post subject:
Nightmare, and not at all amusing.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28235
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 12 8:41 pm Post subject:
So bloody sickening, what with the fear that it won't sort itself out, and you might have to spend hours/days before being able to do any productive work

Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22780
Location: In the 17th century

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 12 7:54 am Post subject:

jema wrote:

it won't sort itself out

An entirely justified fear.

Did I come to work at silly o'clock this morning and have a peaceful and productive couple of hours work before getting the kids up? No. I came to the newly upgraded NetBeans stuck in a high CPU load and totally unresponsive. Had to kill it off, and then waste time working out WTF was going on.

I'm about to update to the latest release candidate. Normally I wouldn't go near such cutting edge versions of tools I rely on, but frankly the current production version doesn't work.

A.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 12 8:50 am Post subject:
Can you roll back to the last working version and let others sort the issue out?

Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22780
Location: In the 17th century

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 12 9:11 am Post subject:
Not really. Previous two production versions have had issues I've sought to fix via upgrade. Going back before that is going further back than I'm comfortable with. A.

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