Artificial swarm?

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Artificial swarm?
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Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 15 6:28 pm Post subject:

I have started to worry about this.

It's been too cold to go into my bees as yet but they are busy and one of the beekeeper's at the meeting yesterday has already had a swarm. He caught it as he was opening up the hive! I get the theory of artificial swarming but also have never done it. I might yell for help or I might try the guerilla approach of my friend who just removed several frames into a nuc box, topped it up with sugar and just let them get on with it. It worked.

I might also leave them on a brood and a half and keep my fingers crossed.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15967

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 15 6:16 am Post subject:
The main thing is to let them have enough room. You could run them on brood and a half or you could artificially swarm them. Could you not get one of the more experienced members to help you? Nobody expects a beekeeper to know everything in their first couple of years, so you won't look silly asking for help.

Lorrainelovesplants

Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 6521
Location: Dordogne

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 15 4:50 pm Post subject:
looking at this post with interest. Mine too are 'in the mood', and I have 2 queen cups in the box. My plan is to move half the bees into one box with some brood and stores (and the queen) (to make them think they have done the move)and leave both queen cups in the original box

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 15 7:13 pm Post subject:

I've gone for the guerilla approach. I have no problem asking for help but all my potential helpers were busy today.

I've moved brood and food on four super frames into a nuc box and filled it up with proper brood frames.

There was the usual mess in the hive as I hadn't had a chance to get the queen excluder on so there was brood in the super and what I thought was a couple of queen cells. They were damaged when I took the frames out to check.

Wish they'd read the books and kept it all tidy in there. Wish I could remember what I'd read in the books when I actually get into the hives. I've filled up the national and put the queen excluder on the top of a brood and a half and added a super on top.

The topbar was full to overflowing as well. I only looked at a couple of frames, I hate damaging the comb and it always gets torn when I open this hive. I've just added some bars on the end.

It's early enough in the season for me to correct any of this if it's a problem. Anyway, we'll just have to see how it all goes.

I'm loving it!

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15967

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 15 7:47 am Post subject:
Hope it has gone well Cathryn. That is one reason I am not too keen on top bar hives; it is so easy to damage the comb. The 'box' with frame type hives are unnatural to some extent but the bees seem happy enough with them. they are very adaptable and don't care if it is a hollow tree, dustbin or proper beehive they set up home in.

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 15 7:53 am Post subject:
How have you got on with yours BahamaM? One thing I discovered early on is the tendency to run out of kit. Last year even the suppliers did. I am already a bit short so I'm ordering more today. This hobby is almost as expensive as keeping horses.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 15 8:32 am Post subject:
What do you do with all the honey? I don't use much, and still have about 15lb from mums hives. I love the idea of bees, but I really don't have any use for the honey (wax is different. It's practically perfume in my book)

BahamaMama

Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 2315
Location: Away with the fairies

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 15 8:58 am Post subject:

Back in again after locking myself out of Downsizer

We went back in for a second opinion after my solo inspection and initial post and it looked completely different. The bees were back to their normal docile selves and all looked good so we have left them as they are for the time being but we will be watching closely.

It was a very useful exercise as we were forced to work through what we would do, how and where, the equipment we would need etc.

We have had to go and buy a ton more stuff (ouch!) as we very quickly realised that we would not manage for more than a couple of days with what we have. We now have two hives (one in a thousand pieces on the dining room table) and plenty of frames, so when it is all assembled we should be prepared. The forecast for the weekend is not great down my way so that will be good for the wood working projects.

I am still not clear what you do at times like this when the bees are starting to look like they are thinking of swarming and the weather is cool and damp. Do you still inspect? I have heard tales of other keepers who have lost their bees because they did not want to do the wrong thing by inspecting in poor weather.

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 15 1:34 pm Post subject:

wellington womble wrote:

What do you do with all the honey? I don't use much, and still have about 15lb from mums hives. I love the idea of bees, but I really don't have any use for the honey (wax is different. It's practically perfume in my book)

Nor me. I still have a few jars left and I only had eight. But one friend made �100 last year, another �400. They both eat loads as well. Another five years like that and they might break even.

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 15 1:39 pm Post subject:

BahamaMama wrote:

Back in again after locking myself out of Downsizer

I think this is great. And do I follow it?!

It needs to be open next to the hive along with every bit of equipment you might need at any time!

https://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 15 1:41 pm Post subject:
And this was his talk which he has given to my Association as well. It's kind of the shortened version. https://bridgendbeekeepers.co.uk/Documents/Uploaded/78-Document-Pre-emptive-swarm-control----Wally-Shaw-pdf.pdf

BahamaMama

Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 2315
Location: Away with the fairies

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 15 1:53 pm Post subject:
Brilliant - printing and laminating! I am just starting the beekeeper's basic assessment course so any notes or guidance is wonderful. Thank you for that.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 15 2:01 pm Post subject:

Cathryn wrote:

And this was his talk which he has given to my Association as well. It's kind of the shortened version.

https://bridgendbeekeepers.co.uk/Documents/Uploaded/78-Document-Pre-emptive-swarm-control----Wally-Shaw-pdf.pdf

Useful.

Cathryn wrote:

How have you got on with yours BahamaM?

One thing I discovered early on is the tendency to run out of kit. Last year even the suppliers did. I am already a bit short so I'm ordering more today. This hobby is almost as expensive as keeping horses.

BahamaMama wrote:

Back in again after locking myself out of Downsizer

Whilst you're waiting read At the Hive Entrance by H Storch. There are some clear signs to tell when swarming is imminent.
With regards to cost of equipment you can build a top bar hive for less than the cost of eleven brood frames & foundation. All the bees need is an empty weatherproof box to be happy. It needs to be a little more elaborate for us to manage, but does not need to be anywhere near as complicated (& expensive) as conventional framed hives. Despite people calling it modern beekeeping it's a throwback from Victorian times, when man saw nature as something to overlord & bend to his will. Be more natural & work with your bees is the way forward IMHO.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15967

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 15 8:52 am Post subject:

It is useful to read beekeeping books, but even more use to look at hives with experienced beekeepers. Remember that the bees don't read the books, and if they do, they do the opposite on purpose sometimes just to confuse the beekeeper.

The top bar hive actually comes from even further back than you say Tavascarow. I undertand that pottery ones have been found in ancient Mediteranean cultures, so not really a British hive. In the UK, skeps seem to have been favoured, but they meant killing the bees to remove the honey, although some people did use small extra bits on the top where the bees tended to store the honey, and that could easily be removed without killing the whole colony. There was also the technique of walking the bees out of one skep into another, but as that involved two skeps, 1 man, 2 women tho drum the old hive for about an hour and a large sheet, I think that was only used to take off rape honey in the summer. From the 17th century some richer beekeepers used 'cabinet makers hives' which were boxes with compartments, occasionally with part glazed so you could see the bees. I did a lot of research on beekeeping history in the UK a few years ago.

Lorrainelovesplants

Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 6521
Location: Dordogne

Posted: Sat May 02, 15 9:26 am Post subject:
well, due to the crap weather, my queen cups have remained cups. There are a couple more of them, and some droon brood, but not enough, so Ill need to wait for the weather to improve.

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