Onshore windfarms cheapest form of UK electricity

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Onshore windfarms cheapest form of UK electricity

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Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 15 2:51 pm Post subject: Onshore windfarms cheapest form of UK electricity

Onshore windfarms cheapest form of UK electricity, report shows

Quote:

Falling costs mean new windfarms are now ï¿½20 cheaper per megawatt hour than coal or gas-fired plants, according to new analysis

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 15 3:03 pm Post subject:
The quote "Costs have dropped to $85 (ï¿½55) per megawatt hour (MWh) compared with the current costs of about $115 for constructing coal or gas-fired plants, its analysis found." doesn't make sense on the face of it. MWh is power x time but the comparison is for construction cost rather than running cost. Perhaps it's just the way the news item is worded.

GrahamH

Joined: 23 May 2015
Posts: 523

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 15 3:05 pm Post subject:
Yes but......when the wind doesn't blow or blows too much. How much of a premium to have a constant, reliable supply?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 15 3:17 pm Post subject:

GrahamH wrote:

Yes but......when the wind doesn't blow or blows too much.

How much of a premium to have a constant, reliable supply?

imho it needs joined up thinking,wind is good at times,tidal range is good nearly all the time,nuke is ace if you are short of plutonium(the world has more than enough of that even if you are a nuclear weapons fan)gas will run out,coal will run out and is messy,oil will run out and is too valuable as a feedstock to burn,biomass is perhaps a good option depending on sourcing ,water flow is good but requires major engineering for big scale or a lot of small engineering,pv require use of finite rare minerals,wave is under developed so far but has some promise,there are some new tech things in development but they are not up and running yet.

perhaps the biggest priority should be energy storage at big or local scale as it seems to be key to using good but variable output power sources.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6614
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 15 3:25 pm Post subject:
I think you should be building more coal plants in the UK to preserve the urban landscape of the late 19th and early 20th century. How will children adjusts to wind towers and not smoke stacks? Think of the destitute street artists looking for stacks with which to present their art!

crofter

Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2252

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 15 3:28 pm Post subject:

GrahamH wrote:

Yes but......when the wind doesn't blow or blows too much.

How much of a premium to have a constant, reliable supply?

Those costs (for wind) are not included

Quote:

However LCOE does not account for the cost of managing intermittent power in the national grid electricity system.

but carbon taxes are included

Quote:

Fossil fuel technologies have been increasing in cost, partly due to new estimates on likely higher future carbon prices.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 15 3:48 pm Post subject:

Slim wrote:

I think you should be building more coal plants in the UK to preserve the urban landscape of the late 19th and early 20th century.

How will children adjusts to wind towers and not smoke stacks?

Think of the destitute street artists looking for stacks with which to present their art!

once the factory and mines acts are repealed we probably will have an early 19th c landscape both socially and environmentally.

RichardW

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 15 7:56 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

perhaps the biggest priority should be energy storage at big or local scale as it seems to be key to using good but variable output power sources.

Or cutting back on what we use?

The cheapest unit is the one we dont use.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6614
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 15 8:20 pm Post subject:
RichardW I agree! I think one of the big reasons that the U.S. hasn't been building new coal power plants is that we've slashed our energy demand growth There are many reasons, but a lot of it is because of increased efficiency measures and conservation in general.

Shane

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3467
Location: Doha. Is hot.

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 15 3:02 am Post subject:

It's a very biased article. The same factors that are making wind power cheaper (i.e. cheaper construction materials) are also dropping the price of new oil and gas projects.

Saying that "fossil fuel costs continue to move upwards" is lazy, and probably uninformed, reporting. Yes, on average, producing hydrocarbons is getting more difficult, but many large contracts on big projects are now being rebid to take advantage of substantially lower materials, manpower and drill rig costs. Vendors are being asked to slash their rates (by 20-30% or more) left, right and centre.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16005

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 15 6:50 am Post subject:

One advantage to wind as well as other renewable resources is that we have the energy source in the UK, or whatever country you are in. With oil or gas, we have to rely on being 'friends' with other countries. We don't do as much of the build of wind turbines as we could, but that is because other countries got ahead of us and are cheaper. It is quite possible to build them here.

Shane, I agree that the prices of cheaper construction materials can bring down the price of other power sources, but particularly with nuclear, you don't really want the cheapest, but the best to be safe.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16005

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 15 6:50 am Post subject:

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 15 8:22 am Post subject:
UK rigging power market against clean energy

Shane

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3467
Location: Doha. Is hot.

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 15 8:45 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

Shane, I agree that the prices of cheaper construction materials can bring down the price of other power sources, but particularly with nuclear, you don't really want the cheapest, but the best to be safe.

China, India, et al can give you steel at whatever standard you require. As long as you do your QC properly, you can go lowest bidder for construction materials and still meet your target specification.

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