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Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 16 6:56 pm Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

No, just for ash. It makes no difference for other trees. There is a lot less money for planting conifers now though, and with leaving the EU even the grant money available may dry up completely as that is where it came from.

The money comes from the UK, perhaps via the EU but that's via the UK in the first place. So, if the UK voters want more woodland grants they can vote for them and we'll cut out the middle men.

I wonder if the FC have updated their own rules with regard to ash spacing, they've been rather intransigent in the past when it comes to spacing, not wanting to let common sense get in the way of the rules.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16092

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 16 7:39 am Post subject:

If you plant trees too far apart they don't develop straight stems, so ideally something like 2m spacing. With ash it is an advantage to thin early anyway, so get better spacing. You may be thinking of phytophra in larch Ty Gwyn; that is also carried as spores.

The money for grants comes from the EU but is paid out by the UK, Treacodactyl. Of course the UK could decide to continue to pay the grants, but somehow I can't see it happening as I don't think most politicians would know a tree if it came up and hit them. No doubt we will be told to be 'more efficient'. As grants have been contracted for up to the next 5 years I am wondering if we will contiue to get them or if the government will break the contract.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 16 8:55 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

The money for grants comes from the EU but is paid out by the UK, Treacodactyl.

As I said, the UK pays the money in in the first place. Funny though, when the money for various woodland grants dried up a year or two ago it was the fault of the current government.

As for grants continuing, you may wish to blame the politicians but it's likely to be down to public opinion. Those on the left seem to generally hate the idea of land owners getting grants.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16092

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 16 7:12 am Post subject:
The current grants can be paid either to the land owner of the person working the land if they have security of tenure for the life of the crop. Admittedly a bit tricky with oak plantation, but not unreasonable with hazel coppice being cut every 7 years. Means the person getting the grant has to have the right to cut next rotation.

HenX

Joined: 27 Apr 2009
Posts: 1459
Location: Forest of Dean

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 16 6:29 pm Post subject:
I'm continually removing the dratted things, so feel free to call in here at some stage and collect some.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 16 5:10 pm Post subject:
I fear for the removal of environmental EU legislation because I don't feel there are enough people organised or concerned enough to care. It's a lumbering beast but it's one that does seem to take environmental & climate disruption seriously.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16092

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 16 7:15 am Post subject:
I would agree with you there Tavascarow. It is very important that we keep something similar to the current legislation or even extend it.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46345
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 16 10:07 am Post subject:
ditto,but with the likes of leadsom as defra minister i recon we will soon be grant and "red tape" free to wallow in seaside sewage and twitching every spraying season.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16092

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 16 5:45 am Post subject:

We have had Chelara confirmed in our wood, and it is obvious in the woods attached to ours. Now we know we have it, it is a question of working with it. It seems that even some of the ash thought to have been 'killed' by it in Denmark are regrowing from lower down, which is good news. Makes them useless for timber, but at least the tree is still alive, which is what we are interested in, so hoping for the best.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 16 7:21 am Post subject:
Oh noes!! There is an Ash that I'm suspicious of North of here. I must stop and take a picture tomorrow.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 16 4:17 pm Post subject:
You can see if it's been found locally here: https://chalaramap.fera.defra.gov.uk/

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46345
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 16 4:24 pm Post subject:
ta , from that it looks like there will be plenty of firewood around here

yummersetter

Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 3241
Location: Somerset

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 16 7:32 pm Post subject:

Getting closer to us, just about 10 miles east. We've gone from being surrounded by elm trees to having about ten large ash trees around our property, it'll be tragic to see them die.
Especially as the recovering elms are dying, because they reached about forty ft high I hoped they might have fought Dutch Elm disease off.
Driving round Somerset last week it seemed that there won't be many horse-chestnuts soon either . . they were in a very bad way.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46345
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 16 10:47 pm Post subject:

re the red death and horse chestnuts we had an outbreak around york that started about 6 or 7 yrs ago. quite a few have gone, some look rather poorly but at least a third seem resistant so far .

going by the way some plantings are all ok and even the ones where most croaked early on one or two of them survived uninfected i recon that they wont be wiped out and any new plantings from resistant tree conkers stand a good chance of keeping the species as a uk favourite.
it will be a few hundred years before the losses are replaced with ones of similar size and as it seems daft to try to grow a new one in the same place as a victim the distribution will be different.

it will probably be a few years before we know what percentage of ash are resistant. iirc in some places the losses have been almost total.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16092

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 16 6:01 am Post subject:

Recently an aquintance of ours who was very worried about ash in the UK visited Denmark, where it was reported the losses were 80-90%. He said that at least some of the trees seem to be growing from lower down again. From the reports and the method of transmission, it sounds as if it could be a bit cyclical. The leaves contain the spores, so once the tree produces very few leaves, there are not enough spores to infect the new ones that grow. Once the growth gets to reasonable propotions again and produces a lot of leaves there is a risk of re-infection etc. Only time will tell. The current teaching is; if it is practical, clear up and burn or compost dead leaves, and only remove trees if they are completely dead or dangerous. They may seem dead, but resprout half way up next year.

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