i am trying to spec a dream machine and

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i am trying to spec a dream machine and
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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46233
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 18 6:48 pm Post subject:

ta , i would build it myself if i had a better knowledge of modern component compatibility, capability and the confidence to spend a lot on parts in the hope it will all work properly with very little messing about at a boot level.

i have considered using a usb drive for linux boots which would work but be rather untidy and put several unnecessary pinch points in the system

another and perhaps simple option is to have twin ssd for the os's, twin hdds for data and simply turn off, flick a switch and start up again.
i rather like that as it would separate the two systems with a physical air gap ( well really sneaky things could hide in a cache or wherever) which is handy to keep the vermin of the web out of the tranquility of the workstation stuff but still have a blistering fast linux /internet rig.

3rd option is to keep this steampunk thing for most web stuff and have a "sterile " machine that is only ever connected to a few trusted sites for updates or cloud storage/processing.

it would be rather nice not to need much effort to use a file collected via linux/web as data in programs running on ms10 and visa versa . ie the web data storage can talk to the workstation programs with ease (after suitable screening for vermin etc and assuming compatible data format/naming etc when appropriate).

security is an issue but if i was going the full snowden owt that has a web connection that is plausibly deniable and preferably unattributed will be quite adequate:lol:
with this rig i just want a pretty good separation between the posh slippers and the dirty boots that walk on the web. imho reasonable security, common sense and a linux rig is not bad for keeping things safe on the web but there are some things i can only do with ms compatible software and ms os's are rather more difficult to keep secure
(ps running wine under linux is ok for some simple stuff but with things like image,video and neural databases the real thing is essential as is a fairly powerful machine)

i recon i could build a super safe web machine or a super fast complicated stuff one but making one do both and make them talk nicely to each other when required is a bit complex.
hence my need of advice and probably help with build and commission

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 18 9:56 pm Post subject:
I don't think I can do much to help, but these folks might be able to: https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/ https://www.reddit.com/r/buildmeapc/

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 18 10:33 pm Post subject:
This lot are good for components and advice: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ It is easy, if you have the time.

sgt.colon

Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 7380
Location: Just south of north.

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 18 10:30 am Post subject:
And if you're building your own, these people I've always found good for price. https://www.scan.co.uk/

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46233
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 18 2:56 pm Post subject:
thanks so far, when i decided on a new base rig i thought i would know what i was doing some what can be done data and recommends for 2 firms on my supply radar adds to my procurement knowledge.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 18 3:15 pm Post subject:

Shane wrote:

I built my own mid-range rig a couple of years back. It's really easy, so a chap of your talents ought to be able to save a few quid and build it yourself.

Don't have the spec to hand, but I'll dig it out when I'm at home later. First thing that stands out though is that I put my OS (Win 10 in my case, but sure it would work with a dual boot) on a small 256GB Samsung chip that plugs direct into the motherboard (something like this, I think) and used the SSDs only for program and personal files. Integrated OS chip means that it starts up as fast as a Mac, and by keeping the chip OS only it runs damn fast.

There used to be a great website called Build Your Own PC that had up-to-date example builds for low-, mid- and high-range rigs, but I can't find it for the life of me now. Would be a shame if it's shut down, as the forums were invaluable.

Similar?

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/

Son sends me links when he requires an upgrade.

Takes the parts, checks for compatibility and looks in online stockists for best deals, and tracks prices.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46233
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 18 5:55 pm Post subject:

ok assuming i could get all the bits connected and avoid too much dog fur in the thermal compound etc and do build the thing myself i am still a bit out of date re tech and troubleshooting if it isn't playing nicely.

and i definitely need expert help with design and commissioning as i know what i need it to do but not what i need to play lego with or which bits of lego go best with the intended uses of the machine.

just for starters win 10, i have been out of the windows loop since vista

just cos i can crash an old , vermin ridden laptop and sterilise it from below upwards does not mean i have a clue about what 10 can be configured to do.

something i have considered is that the turn it off, flick a real switch, turn it on and boot a different os seems like a robust sort of way to build a two in one box rig.
although i do need to be able to transfer compatible data between the two os's i dont need them on at the same time and a few mins of lullabys for one os and a gentle shaking for the other isnt an issue.

very robust in many ways, capable of serious processing and configured for the odd variety of tasks i want of it

spose that is a start but ....... ahhhh.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 18 6:31 pm Post subject:
No problems with Win 10 here, updates much less likely to break things than previous versions. No infections so far.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46233
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 18 7:01 pm Post subject:
that is nice to know. it does seem sensible to go for 10 to be fairly future proofed is the pro version adaptable and controllable? ie can a fool with a bit of practice ask it to do stuff and tell it to behave regarding stuff it should not do and it does without needing therapy ? i hope so as it looks like i probably need that as one os.

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 18 8:12 pm Post subject:
I'm on Win10 here and at work. Haven't had any problems at home. Work? Nothing's idiot proof. Everyone else gets on fine with it. It's very configurable in terms of permissions/auto/not-auto stuff which I think is what you're asking.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46233
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 18 10:00 pm Post subject:
ta, configurable is good

Shane

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3467
Location: Doha. Is hot.

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 18 3:27 am Post subject:

Nick wrote:

Similar?

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/

Son sends me links when he requires an upgrade.

Takes the parts, checks for compatibility and looks in online stockists for best deals, and tracks prices.

Ish. The build-your-own forum was a bit like this Downsizer - loads of passionate amateurs that would be more than willing to give advice with no particular tie to any particular brand. There was a section in which the site admin kept up-to-date specs for entry-level, mid-range and top-spec builds, and you could post your proposed spec for other users to give feedback. Would be a real shame if it's gone, because it was by far the best resource for self-building out there.

Shane

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3467
Location: Doha. Is hot.

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 18 3:51 am Post subject:

dpack wrote:

First thing to do is decide on what processor you want, then decide on a chipset, then start to look into compatible motherboards. For your uses you'll only need one GPU so won't need a high-end gaming motherboard, but worth going for a motherboard with at least four SATA connections for hard-drives. Processor comes down to AMD vs Intel and then it's a case of how much you're willing to pay for the performance. Once you've picked a processor, you'll be able to pretty quickly whittle motherboards down to less than half-a-dozen.

Worth going for a modular power supply (PSU). There's plenty of sites of there that will calculate the size of PSU you need once you've picked your main components. Go for a good brand.

Get yourself a decent mid-tower ATX case (choose one with easy access, lots of ventillation and quiet fans), but don't order it until you've settled on motherboard and GPU as you'll need to know the dimensions to make sure you order a case that's big enough.

Hmm - looks like I ordered a fair amount of my last build through Amazon (I shopped around and ordered from wherever was cheapest). Here's the bits I can see under My Orders:

Intel Core i7 4790K (this has gone up significantly since I bought it!)
MSI Nvidia GTX 970 GPU
Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus Case
LG BH16NS40 16x SATA Internal BD-RW
Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSD (I bought three of these - two that I run in mirror set up for file storage and a third that I use as a scratch disk for photo and video editing)
Logitech MX800 Keyboard/Mouse combo (although the mouse stopped working properly after a few months

)
Surge Protector / UPS (worth buying if you've spent a reasonable amount on your PC!)

I bought the motherboard, RAM and PSU somewhere else - will see if I can find it later and will update the post. Most of the above is probably obsolete now, anyway

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46233
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 18 5:12 pm Post subject:
ta , just to complicate matters the reports of cpu/mb architecture being open to compromise and that the fix will drop speeds considerable needs to be taken into account. it seems daft to get a new pooter only to have to fix it immediately and halve it's speed. it might be best to get a rig that avoids those problems if i can.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46233
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 18 9:49 pm Post subject:

looks like it will be an AMD cpu as theirs are only vulnerable to one variant/aspect and it is the one that can be fixed with little effect on performance and there are suitable patches for 10 and linux

from what i can gather any intel (and some other manufacturers) chips from the last decade will need several fixes and one of them knocks about 30% off speed/ability in complex high load tasks
( which i guess includes most of the things i want it for

)

amd comments

hey ho better to find out at this stage, this machine is so old as to not be at risk but tt's new lappy is, at least it will still be plenty powerful for her usual words and maths and talking to the work mainframe stuff even if it does need a debilitating change to the kernel parameters at birth.

i wonder if the sale of goods acts covers selling goods the manufacturer knew to be "faulty" , they were told a while ago

and this was shipped this year

a % refund on any lost performance and a few nice bits of" sorry have this for the inconvenience" should be a minimum redress.

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