Hand sanitiser.

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Hand sanitiser.

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Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 20 1:46 pm Post subject: Hand sanitiser.
For some strange reason there seems to be a national shortage of hand sanitiser. I overheard a shop assistant this morning say that they'd sold out 10 minutes after opening today. Do we have any good recipes to make it at home?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 20 2:24 pm Post subject:

soap and water are more effective as removing the beasts is easier than disabling them.
a bar of soap in a container is your friend.

re alcohol based sanitizers , they need to be 70 proof or above, they are ok with many bugs but not all, they are not good at destroying virii.

they will help but are no substitute for good procedure and wet hygiene.

first person singing happy birthday will find their head having a quantum moment with the fittings

but don't touch your soft entry points until you have washed your paws is very sensible

re a recipe, spiritos vodka and a bit of bleach would be pretty effective but a bit rough on the skin.

imho discipline and soap is what the medical expert models suggest as most effective.
mask up if nursing or on the way to hospital but otherwise tis fairly pointless

rather than alcohol hand gel consider using baby wipes for "dry" washing, it removes more "things" , is gentle on the skin and afaik there is not a run on them as yet.

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8914
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 20 6:00 pm Post subject:
I mentioned the recipe to a friend who works in a pharmacy...there has been a run on the alcohol....I wonder if vodka would do it? Just a thought

derbyshiredowser

Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 980
Location: derbyshire

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 20 9:04 pm Post subject:
2/3 cup of alcohol and 1/3 cup aloe vera gel makes a sanitizer of 65 % I read that apparently most commercial ones are 60%

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 20 9:15 pm Post subject:

I dread to think what it’s made of. I think it’s a good thing it’s causing people to think, even if they aren’t thinking it through far enough.

1) it’s antibacterial. Says nothing at all about it’s effectiveness against a virus!

2) they all say 99 percent effective. Well so is plain ol soap and water. Although only if used properly.

3) as virtually no one who hasn’t done a stint in an operating theatre does wash their hands properly, then anti-bac is more effective in general use, so it’s a good thing it’s out there.

4) people use it more, because it’s fast and easy and you can carry it with you, or use it at a door. And if you want 30 children to wash their hands as they enter a classroom, forget it. You can gel them all, though. Same at other gathering places. Pity there is none left, really.

I’m not a fan of it, myself, I find it dries my hands out. I did use it in hospitals to limit cross infection as I moved around them, but as I no longer work in clinical areas, it’s not necessary for us at home.

The very best thing you can to limit your own chances of being infected is NEVER to touch your face or your food (unless you have just washed your hands, of course) you can’t really keep if off your hands if you are out and about, and that’s fine. It won’t infect YOU on you hands (although you can pass it on, so that’s why good handwashing is important to limit the spread to others) but you can keep it out of your body if you don’t touch your face. I forget the exact numbers, but we touch our faces something like 40 times an hour, and that’s where the virus gets in. That’s why face masks work. It’s so much not that you might breathe it in, it’s that you don’t touch your face, and they heighten awareness big time. They are also so deeply unpleasant to wear that you will likely avoid anything that means you must wear them, and would get busted immediately if you didn’t, so it’s easy to police.

I’ve fallen out of the habits over years, and it is a hard habit to break (working in hospitals with norovirus will usually do it.) or you could pay fifty quid for a bottle of anti bac gel on eBay (I kid you not!)

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 20 9:59 pm Post subject:

as an ex hardcore chemist+some radiochemistry+a fair bit of microbiology, i can not touch my face all day if needs be

the advice you give seems very sound, re the gel thing if it does not kill this virus thinking your paws are clean is likely to make matters worse than assuming they are dirty.

re 30 kids in a line, i see your point but teaching them sterile scrubbing and providing brushes, suitable soap and facilities would be better.
however they are a major vector for many pathogens and gel or soap they will probably infect each other and the wider population if they go to school. if they dont we will be many key workers down as they are at home doing childcare.

the psychological effect of masks preventing hand to face contact is probably more important than not getting a mouthful of sneeze for the general public.

something that i have taken up is washing the outside of bottles i will handle later, it would be daft to wash my paws and then put a dirty bottle in the fridge.
probably daft as daft is but it seems an easy and do no harm sort of measure.

if you have ever done the uv tracer on a door handle thing in a school any thoughts of getting the little ......(insert adjective of choice)to follow infection control protocol will vanish like hand gel

re surfaces etc afaik hypochlorite bleach is pretty good against this sort of virus but a good scrub can help a lot

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 20 10:06 pm Post subject:
not for hands but useful for their given purpose

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15964

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 20 7:43 am Post subject:

I do have some basic chlorine bleach for use if any of us get a tummy bug, but for most things I don't bother, although it could be useful if any of us get it. This is a nasty one, and so after visiting places with people, hand washing is the best thing as you all say.

As it is unlikely we will get it in the woods, just baby wipes if hands really dirty before eating, or getting plenty of good clean dirt seems quite adequate as usual. We don't keep animals, so most of our dirt is clean.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 20 7:49 am Post subject:

derbyshiredowser wrote:

2/3 cup of alcohol and 1/3 cup aloe vera gel makes a sanitizer of 65 % I read that apparently most commercial ones are 60%

I think that 60% is the minimum required by the regulations, probably because that's what's needed to kill the virus.
Apparently this virus is killed by alcohol.
(Is "killed" the right word? When I was at school, I don't think they had decided if a virus counts as life or not).

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 20 2:09 pm Post subject:
from what i read 70% for at least 2 mins and better 4 mins is enough to dissolve the fatty "skin" of this one. i would not consider rubbing a few drops that evaporate in a minute effective.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15964

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 20 7:36 am Post subject:
I read that 70% was needed too. It would need to be mixed with something that would stop evaporation, so the aloe vera that DD mentioned my do that, as well as stopping it damaging the skin. Perhaps a bit more alcohol and a bit less aloe vera might be better. I don't think commercially available vodka would be strong enough, as 70% alcohol would be pretty lethal.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 20 10:54 am Post subject:

spiritos

the other thing with alcohol is the time/temp curve.

a range of 2 to 4 mins is probably beyond a quick splash and rub which is dry in less than a minute.

if handwash is going to be effective a revised technique is required and that amount of skin exposure to alcohols is likely to cause cracks and rashes that provide an excellent soft entry point.

yep aloe or lanolin etc might help reduce skin damage but cannot eliminate it.

discipline and washing do seem to be the weapon of choice for reducing ones risks a little.

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