white elderberry?

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white elderberry?
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cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 09 1:57 pm Post subject:

James wrote:

tahir wrote:

James wrote:

I've not found a source of "Alba", but have tracked "Cae Rhos Lligwy" down to the agroforestry research trust (out of stock till autumn 09) and The Herb garden & historical plant nursery, Gaerwen, Anglesy (who claim to be the originators of this variety; no info on availability).

Just seen this, yes, Martin's the best source for elderberry cultivars

Sorry for my ignorance, Tahir, but... Martin who?

I've been given a couple of recommended locations by someone on a wine making forum, so will be keeping an eye open come autumn.

Tahir hasn't answered, I'll jump in if I may...

Martin runs the ART. Its pretty much the case that Martin IS the ART, as far as I can tell. And he's an excellent chap, very helpful and free his with good advice. Has a staggering array of very interesting plants available too.

lottie

Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 5059
Location: ceredigion

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 09 2:35 pm Post subject:
I've bought several plants and trees from him -----including 5 different elderberries and they are great for unusual apple trees and other plants/trees that are difficult to get---very reliable and helpful.

James

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2866
Location: York

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 09 3:48 pm Post subject:

sickpup wrote:

how do you take a cutting from a tree? didnt think it was possible

I've read a few different methods for taking elderberry cuttings, but this seems (from one who's not yet taken an elderberry cutting) to be the most likely to work:
use one year old wood, taking the stem off were it joins the two year old wood. Ripping the stem off, including some 'heal' (the join between the 1 year and 2 year wood) is best. Allow it to callus, then re-plant in late winter.
I'm not sure if you need the full length of the 1 year old cane, or if you can get away with using a short (1 ft?) length with the heal. I think I'll try both.

Elderberry breaks bud quite early, so I'd be tempted to plant some straight into potting compost and allow them to callus in-situ.

If elder is like any other soft fruit, callusing occurs prefferentially in warmer temperatures, so only starts to happen when the weather warms up in spring. If rooting is to be succesfull, the heal should callus before the buds break. To increase the speed of callusing on soft wood cuttings, I put stems close to the edge of a black pot left outside. The pot warms up, but the wind keeps the stems cool. I've also hear of putting a small amount of damp sawdust around the base of the the stems and rapping in black plastic & elastic banding it on. The root area will be slightly warmer than the stems, so will callus before bud break.

Oddly, I read one account saying that elderberries were one of the few plants that would root upside down. I'm not at all sure how true this is....

87sambucus

Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 2

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 09 8:53 pm Post subject: source for all varieties of sambucus including the white one
i have a collection of 87 varieties of sambucus (elderberries) some of which are for sale through this web page www.cgf.net hope this is of some help to all concerned

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 09 8:13 am Post subject:
Not many for sale though? Any good fruiting ones you'd recommend?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 09 8:22 am Post subject:
Wide range of sedums too.

87sambucus

Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 2

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 09 8:54 pm Post subject: best fruiting variaties

all varieties listed by ART have the best flavor particularly any hybrid done by the Germans or any in usa. the best flavored are those with green berries as they have a low tannin level and as the age tend to have a higher sugar content, and so will tend to make a good full bodied white wine best recommended vars are sambucus nigra viridis from ART. there are other green varieties sadly only available from usa ie (sam. nigra goldbeere) and i must apoligise cgf are waiting for me to propagate my stock. but i do know that i have viridis in stock at the moment small plants in 9cm pots and i will forward them to cgf.net this week

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 09 9:36 pm Post subject:
What about flowers? I've had elderflower water at ART from American elder (different species isn't it?) are some varieties better than others for flavpur

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 09 9:40 pm Post subject:
Any other unusual berries you grow? And is tyour interest primarlily wine?

James

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2866
Location: York

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 09 8:14 am Post subject:
Thanks for your advice, 87 Sambucus. Do you know of the variety 'Cae Rhos Lligwy' that I mentioned earlier in this thread? If so, how does it differ from your variety "viridris"? Also, what is ART?

rich59

Joined: 11 Jul 2020
Posts: 15

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 20 4:10 pm Post subject:
It's a long story but I'm growing currently about 20 different strains of white elderberry. The main purpose for them is to find the best strains for wine making. Also have been working on finding the best strains for elderflower wines. I can probably answer quite a few questions anybody has got.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 20 5:34 am Post subject:

hi welcome aboard, blackberry wines are my speciality if that is not an overstatement

i find that year's weather to be as if not more important than the strain of bramble for making "port"

that said my bramble(as seen in assorted wildlife snaps) does seem to be a good un even if it is a wild one rather than a named variety
it is prone to rust but it seems to cope with that and does ace fruit compared to most of the local wild ones
that might be feeding more than type and it is almost certainly not location as mine does not get the sun it deserves, unless that helps in some odd way
probably the feed and watering regimes is the most important reason i get a high yield.

rich59

Joined: 11 Jul 2020
Posts: 15

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 20 7:44 pm Post subject:
Hi dpack, How long have you been making "port" from your bramble? What quantities do you make? Is it your own recipe? Commercial yeast?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 20 10:48 pm Post subject:

decades , the last ten years off the ones in the yard, before from forage

i got 5 gallons last year, which i do need to bottle(and some fresh light wine which never got to this year from the first pickings, we get pie and dessert fruit off it as well)

at gallon scale

approx 5lb best berries, 2 lb white sugar, port yeast

ferment on pulp , strain, add sugar, make up to 3/4 gallon

wait

add 1 lb sugar and pint of water

wait

add a pint of strong dark tea(tannins) and a bit of sugar

wait til it drops, takes a while as it is a slow ferment, bottle

it improves over several years if it lasts that long

the 2019 will be ok from xmas 2021 etc

i use a 5 gallon rig as wee bits are make life complex and if needs be several batches of strained fermenting juice and more sugar can be added to the barrel with an airlock on top
once it is done and settled the tap makes the decant to another barrel easy, then tis just filling bottles and sealing them well

ps the sugar goes in as crystal and the fruit is not treated so it still has wild yeasts to go with the commercial port yeast for a slow ferment with loads of complex chemistry

it passes for a fairly decent port style strong wine if the fruit is ripe.

good bramble is worth training, pruning and feeding, far more productive as most very similar wild living ones and full of wildlife

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15985

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 20 6:36 am Post subject:
Sounds interesting. I will have to try to get some port yeast.

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