Domestic wells and dowsing

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Domestic wells and dowsing
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cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 06 1:08 pm Post subject:
Foghorn, contact the Randi foundation. It isn't hard to organise a trial where you know what you're looking for, but don't know where it is, and compare the results of a dowser against other methodologies. Simple to design and to do, and if it works you win a million US dollars. Many have taken dowisng to the foundation. All have failed.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 06 4:32 pm Post subject:

My water is from a well, and it's much nicer than that chemical spiked stuff Behemoth flogs.

It was checked when we had to get a mortgage, as it's our only source of water, but the surveyor organised that, and took it to the PHLS in the local hospital. It was �16, and told us it was safe to drink. We haven't had it checked in the last 5 years, so we may be dying of something, but it tastes OK.

It's filtered through the gusset from a pair of my wife's maternity tights (new, and unused...), but aside from that we don't clean it at all. Cup of tea, anyone?

As for dowsing, our local farmer swears by it. However, he still buys water from the local water board and he also swears by a lot of daft stuff.

Foghorn

Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 49
Location: Barcombe, E Sussex

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 06 7:14 pm Post subject:

Cab, I've seen the Randi Foundation thing and that's just my point. I don't think dowsing is paranormal, I think it' normal. I just don't think it's been researched thoroughly, and the rather aggressive and patronising stance of "modern science" sets supposedly definitive tests - such as double blind trials - that seek to debunk something that is only partially understood.

Just think how idiotic "modern science" looked when the weird and wonderful world of quantum mechanics was discovered. I can understand the scepticism though, as I've seen some fairly ambitious claims made for dowsing. I'm only really interested in how people have used it on a day to day basis.

Nickhowe, could you tell me what PHLS stands for, and did you also register your well with the water board?

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 06 8:12 pm Post subject:

Foghorn wrote:

Double blind protocols aren't meant to be there for debunking, they're there as a way of making sure that what you get isn't biased. Thats the whole point, it prevents you from trying to debunk just as much as it prevents you from unknowingly favouring a positive result.

Dowsing is something you can claim the million dollars with. And if you rekon theres a dowser in your parts who can do it, I really urge you to get in touch with JREF, they'll sort out a prelim test (if you like, I'll help you design the experiment and we'll get in touch with them with a firm proposal for how to do a prelimiary test) and go from there. And if you win the million, buy me a pint

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28233
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 06 8:26 pm Post subject:

If anything the problem is with the dowsers themselves who make the claim they can detect specific things like water without any "clues" from the environment around naturally occurring water.
When this ambitious claim is tested it is about as totally researched as it can be, hundreds of dowsers have tried in double blind testing and they have *all* failed.
Of course detecting natural water would not be a million dollar challenge winner, as it would be using the knowledge of the dowser subconcious or otherwise, as opposed any real mysterious power.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 06 5:54 am Post subject:
Well if someone can find water by looking at the surroundings as well as carring some rods in their hands I can't see anything wrong with that. It's intesting to see that the 'scientific tests' being suggested are limiting to such an extent that it's hardly surprising it's not been proven.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 06 9:14 am Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

Well if someone can find water by looking at the surroundings as well as carring some rods in their hands I can't see anything wrong with that. It's intesting to see that the 'scientific tests' being suggested are limiting to such an extent that it's hardly surprising it's not been proven.

The way you'd do it is by picking locations where subterranean water sources are mapped but not obvious; contact any good hydrologist and you can find that out (there are some good people at Lancaster University and some at UEA). They would give you the location (but not the precise spots of the water sources) and then you'd go out with your dowser(s) and see how well they do against a control, and against someone who merely takes environmental factors into account; you wouldn't know yourself where the water sources are, the dowser wouldn't know, and you'd be informed of the precise location afterwards.

Dead easy. If anyone rekons they can do it, claim the million dollars.
Simple and easy.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 06 9:52 am Post subject:

PHLS was the Public Health Labs, but they are now the Health Protection Agency. They have branches in your local District General Hospital.

We haven't told the waterboard. It's got bugger all to do with them. They have written to us on several occassions, demanding to know if we're on their system, and threatening to cut us off if we don't reply. We haven't, but they don't seem to have stopped the rain yet...

Foghorn

Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 49
Location: Barcombe, E Sussex

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 06 11:25 am Post subject:

Cab, you appear to have an unhealthy (for a downsizer) preoccupation with that large wedge of Randi notes, but thanks for your offer nonetheless.

Actually, I'm not bothered about trying to prove that it works - I'd just like to find some dowsing contacts so I can continue my own personal quest.

Nickhowe, cheers for the advice - I thought I'd read somewhere that you are obliged by law to report a working well to the water authority. Though I'd gladly follow your example and offer them a free personal inspection of the bottom of the well.

Actually, is there any way of finding out how deep the well is, and /or further surveying it? I'd love to know what's at the bottom.

Bugs

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10744

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 06 11:30 am Post subject:

Foghorn wrote:

Actually, I'm not bothered about trying to prove that it works - I'd just like to find some dowsing contacts so I can continue my own personal quest.

I'd be surprised if there aren't others here who have given it a bash, but just in case, try this:

https://www.britishdowsers.org/

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 06 11:30 am Post subject:
You may HAVE to report it, don't get me wrong, but no-one's told me I have to.... Depth can be worked out with a plumb line.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 06 12:03 pm Post subject:
the dover castle well was excavated early 1980s with a bloke and a bucket on a rope 220 feet i think happy digging .

Beckyess

Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 1076
Location: Worcestershire

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 06 3:45 pm Post subject:
Truro College had a course on dowsing a year or so ago but unfortunately it coincided with another course I was on Becky

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 06 3:51 pm Post subject:

Foghorn wrote:

Shame. It isn't an unhealthy obsession at all, but if there's a way that any one of our members here could win a million US dollars simply doing something they believe they can do (translates into less sterling, of course, but is still worth having) then I'd offer to lend a helping hand. I should think that if anyone here were to try such a thing, were they to ask for help they'd get a whole load of offers.

It strikes me that if it did work, one of the dowsers who has tried would have claimed the money by now. And if it does work, then I'd rather it was 'one of ours' that proves it.

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 06 4:04 pm Post subject:

I personally feel it probably 'works' by bypassing the concious thought part of the brain, so in other words a good dowser will have a natural feel for the indications of water, but may not even know how to put those into active words if questioned. When they go dowsing, they allow thir brain to process all the little physical indications in the landscape and translate that into the dip of the wand or crossing of the rods. Possibly no difference from a good intuitive gardener 'knowing' where to site a new and unfamiliar plant- they are really drawing on experience and many other factors, but just not actively thinking it through step by step. Lots of skills manifest that way especially in traditional crafts, you often hear people say 'ooh, you're a natural at that' or 'he has a real feel for working with whatever'. As such, any tool that helps the person get in the right frame of mind to use their skill to the best effect is fine- but it might not be scientifically demonstratable.

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