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Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 10:02 am Post subject:
NL Surely the regs for bees would be exactly the same as for any other creature. It would rely on a system of inspection and the like.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 10:07 am Post subject:
I haven't looked at the soil assosciations standards but I would imagine if they are kept without any chemical intervention ie no acaricides (sp) for varoa treatment then it would be deemed organic. But as I said in Mrs Fiddlesticks thread they will range 2 or 3 miles which makes a mockery of the 100m exclusion zone on GM oil seed rape.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 10:07 am Post subject:
The same question has always occurred to me when you see organic prawns, or organic sea salt. Oh, I'm sure there are Proper Inspections and the like, and producers can prove they've hit the mark, but, really? Seriously?

Mrs Fiddlesticks

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 10460

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 10:12 am Post subject:

TAVASCAROW wrote:

I haven't looked at the soil assosciations standards but I would imagine if they are kept without any chemical intervention ie no acaricides (sp) for varoa treatment then it would be deemed organic.
But as I said in Mrs Fiddlesticks thread they will range 2 or 3 miles which makes a mockery of the 100m exclusion zone on GM oil seed rape.

absolutely right. You can't tell a bee to only go in the organic fields and avoid Mrs Miggins' garden cos she's been at the rose spray. Almost impossible to prove it was organic.

There is also a universal responsibility to treat things like varroa for the sake of the wider bee population in general.

Northern_Lad

Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 14210
Location: Somewhere

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 10:13 am Post subject:
It's more on the food side as I can't see the farmer injecting them all with growth hormones, although I do suspest they'll use fungisides on the hives every now and again.

Mrs Fiddlesticks

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 10460

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 10:21 am Post subject:

varroa is a mite that infects a honey bee. It is a parasite and distorts, disables and can kill an individual bee as well as making them more vunerable to other diseases. If untreated can weaken a colony as well as potentially infecting other nearby colonies. Its treated with a chemical but the treatment is put in the hive well away from any time that honey might be made or collected. Bees are fed in winter with sugar syrup (could be organic if you liked I suppose) and bee fondant but that doesn't affect honey since they're not making any - which is why you're feeding them in the first place.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 10:24 am Post subject:

Mrs Fiddlesticks wrote:

TAVASCAROW wrote:

It's possible to control varoa using non chemical methods such as drone trapping etc just a lot more work.
Here in Cornwall we already have acaricide resistant varoa mites
& have had to start using other methods of control.
My hives are on mesh floors (Highly reccomend as the colony stays a lot cooler in the summer.
The mites that drop off fall through the mesh & don't get picked up by other bees.
I have started using apiguard which is a gel containing thyme oil
which is an irritant to the mites & causes them to dislodge.
Don't know if it's soil association recognised but there is no risk of resistance building.

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 10:27 am Post subject:
With bees I would think that the only things that could be inspected is the medication side and the processing and bottling.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 10:33 am Post subject:
& for organic I would imagine feeding syrup is a no go. Just leave enough honey on the hive for winter stores & take the surplus. Although syrup is fed after the crop is taken there will still be traces in the following years crop. I only feed syrup to young colonies that haven't enough bees to forage.

doctoral

Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 697
Location: Now in Surrey ... I need a good avatar

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 11:35 am Post subject:
I take it from this thread that neither non-GM crops nor organic bees exist - matches my own thoughts - other thing is that if neither exist, nor does non-GM honey

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 11:38 am Post subject:
It's stuff like this that makes me want a total GM ban in this country, we have no real choice in the matter do we?

doctoral

Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 697
Location: Now in Surrey ... I need a good avatar

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 11:41 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

It's stuff like this that makes me want a total GM ban in this country, we have no real choice in the matter do we?

No choice in many things, it seems - where did democracy go ....

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 11:44 am Post subject:

doctoral wrote:

No choice in many things, it seems - where did democracy go ....

Well, what exactly is democracy? I didn't vote to privatise the railways or to invade Iraq...

Glis glis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 43

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 11:52 am Post subject:

As far as I am aware the regs for organic honey is that the land around the hives must be of a certain radius of organic land. Ive forgotten the exact distance, but its the maximum distance a bee can travel. This is why there is no organic honey in existance in the UK as there is not an area of organic land big enough. So organic shops will generally sell organic honey from latin american countries etc, however I still think that local honey is much better, and if it is from an organic farm of course you cant be sure the bees have foraged on organic flowers, but there is a good chance that they will have.

cir3ngirl

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 4846
Location: Cirencester

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 06 1:39 pm Post subject:
The distance is a radis of 10 miles from the hive. I was told this by our local organic farm manager when taking a tour of the farm. The lable on their honey reads "from our farm Not certified Organic". Knew that info would come in useful one day.

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