Is green electricity really green?

Latest Articles

Is green electricity really green?
Page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Downsizer Forum Index -> Energy Efficiency and Construction/Major Projects

Author

Message

bagpuss

Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 8:40 am Post subject:

I guess maybe you have to look at it from a marketing point of view, at the end of the day whoever you buy your electricity from it still comes from the common resource

That being said the more people who choose to use green tariffs the more the shareholders of the companies who generate the energy will see the need for the renewable sources etc

the electricity you are paying for now in the green tariff might not actually come from the renewable resource but the longer you do it and the more you convince others to the more likely it will in the future

Jb

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 7761
Location: 91� N

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 8:58 am Post subject:
Reasonable, but it does mean that while there is an environmental argument for buying electricity on a green tariff it does mean that ithe electricity you use at present on such a tariff can not be regarded as having any less environmental impact than electricity bought on any other tariff.

bagpuss

Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 9:05 am Post subject:

JB wrote:

Reasonable, but it does mean that while there is an environmental argument for buying electricity on a green tariff it does mean that ithe electricity you use at present on such a tariff can not be regarded as having any less environmental impact than electricity bought on any other tariff.

certainly and anyone who has a holier than though attitude about paying for green electricity should have the details of the national grid described to them in some detail

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 9:08 am Post subject:
Such is the nature of the grid. But they should be applauded for helping to stimulate the renewables market.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 1:16 pm Post subject:

Why is it a problem? Provided the kW put in is the same as taken out by the 'green' producers/consumers you are consuming green power. You can't expect to get the same electrons off the grid as put in by renewable sources unless you either have two seperate grids, or a wind turbine right next to your house

The carbon issue is often reported as a 'once it's gone it's gone' issue, and most of the emphasis seems to be put on cutting down power use. This is very important, but it isn't the same issue as renewable power, which is all about stopping the release of stored carbon from the Earth & utilising more of that already in the carbon cycle & other atmospheric power sources. There was some awareness of the third major problem, that of the world carbon sponges, ten to fifteen years ago, but since then the issue has been taken over [forgotten about?] by renewables & cutting down.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 1:27 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

It depends on how much energy is used just to get that kW of 'green' energy into the grid. For example if wind turbines are built in unsuitable places they might not be as green as people think.

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 1:33 pm Post subject:
Isn't that just overcomplicating things though? Yes both renewable wind farms and coal fired power station use concrete in their manufacture, but do we want to go down the road of analysing it all to the nth degree?

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 1:38 pm Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

Isn't that just overcomplicating things though? Yes both renewable wind farms and coal fired power station use concrete in their manufacture, but do we want to go down the road of analysing it all to the nth degree?

Not to the nth degree but to some extent yes. If you're going to stick the turbine somewhere which isn't that windy and you're still going to need a backup energy supply that needs to tick over, i.e. burn fuels, then all that should be taken into account.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 1:41 pm Post subject:
It's way too much over complicating the issue, the issue being that if you live next door to Drax yet you pay a 'green' tariff, it is far more 'green' for you to use grid power from the coal fired power station, which doesn't really matter, providing that someone somewhere is producing the same amount of power by renewable sources [and someone paying a 'dirty' tariff is using it].

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 1:47 pm Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

I see your point and whilst I agree with it, I think it's not quite the point we are discussing. If you have one wind turbine on your house you will need back up from the grid, or at times you may contribute to the grid. But overall you may make a positive contribution.

bagpuss

Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 1:48 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

It's way too much over complicating the issue, the issue being that if you live next door to Drax yet you pay a 'green' tariff, it is far more 'green' for you to use grid power from the coal fired power station, which doesn't really matter, providing that someone somewhere is producing the same amount of power by renewable sources [and someone paying a 'dirty' tariff is using it].

I think at the end of the day the more people who pay for green energy the more money companies will put into developing green energy sources because it gains them kudos and more importantly to their shareholders profit

If the current and voltage you actually us is green or not you have no control over and shouldt worry about what more important is you don't use more than you need and you put pressure on government and companies to invest more into renewable energy resources

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 2:38 pm Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

Treacodactyl wrote:

I'm referring to commercial wind farms and surely that's relevant? If the wind isn't strong enough then the electricity will most likely come from fossil fuels or nuclear and I gather those plants have to tick over even when their power isn't required. If you build a wind turbine in a less windy spot then it'll produce even less. It seems some of the current money going into green energy is resulting in wind farms in unsuitable places which would make me question things before signing up to one of the companies.

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 2:42 pm Post subject:
Renewables by their nature have to be part of a complimentary system. Even the most efficiently sited wind farm will have times when it can't generate due to local wind conditions.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 2:49 pm Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

Renewables by their nature have to be part of a complimentary system. Even the most efficiently sited wind farm will have times when it can't generate due to local wind conditions.

I agree although we should be changing our lifestyles far more to fit in with renewables. To offset the energy used to construct a wind farm it would seem wise to site it the best possible place.

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 07 2:54 pm Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

I agree although we should be changing our lifestyles far more to fit in with renewables. To offset the energy used to construct a wind farm it would seem wise to site it the best possible place.

True, unfortunately there are lots of arguments that may lead to wind farms being sited in less than optimal places. but that's a reality.

	Downsizer Forum Index -> Energy Efficiency and Construction/Major Projects	All times are GMT Page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Page 2 of 3

View Latest Posts