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cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 8:23 am Post subject:

Anonymous wrote:

Alkanet, if kept in check, should be grown in every garden. Like all blue-flowered plants, it attracts bees (think of blue borage), and should be grown if only for that reason. It says in one of my books that the leaves can be eaten in salads.

Sarah D

Interesting... The mentions I've come across of this plant list it as being slightly toxic. Have you eaten it?

mochyn

Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 8:38 am Post subject:

As I said in an earlier post:

mochyn wrote:

Yep, definitely evergreen alkanet (Pentaglottis sempervirens), so DON'T EAT ANY PART OF IT! It can be confused with alkanet (Anchusa officinalis) which is a dye plant and the young leaves and flowers of which are edible. As far as I can track down, the one you have is pretty well useless, although I agree, it's very pretty. Sorry!

The one that has been found here is EVERGREEN ALKANET: the toxic one, flowering now until about June. The other is more rare and flowers from June. So, if you have the former please DON'T put it in your salads! Cab: you'll probably find a pic. of the Anchusa on that website you quoted before. It's a British native, so it should be there. I'll have a look...

mochyn

Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 8:47 am Post subject:

Sorry, it was Treac who posted the Bioimages link. I've looked, and there isn't one of Anchusa officinalis. The problem here arises from two things, I think:

1 the use of common names: they are both Alkanets, but not of the same genus: the toxic one is a Pentaglottis, the edible one an Anchusa

2 They are both members of the same family and as a result have many superficial similarities: small blue flowers of very similare shape, hairy leaves etc.

I always encouraged students to use botanical names where possible: if I call a plant Pentaglottis sempervirens there is only one thing that can be. If I call it Alkanet, the common name, confusion may arise. I know this seems an accademic thing, but it does help to eliminate problems. I' sure, if we ask him nicely, Cab would write a piece on botanical nomenclature and plant IDs.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 9:38 am Post subject:

mochyn wrote:

Cheers Mochyn; I knew of the other alkanet plant but had assumed we were still with the accursed evergreen alkanet

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 9:39 am Post subject:

mochyn wrote:

I' sure, if we ask him nicely, Cab would write a piece on botanical nomenclature and plant IDs.

Gosh, but wouldn't that be a DULL article?

Shall I edit the 'rules for safe picking' and include a suggestion that it's a good idea to be clear with nomenclature in the 'rules for safe foraging' posting? And should that posting be fiddled with to make it a full article?

Edit: I've added this to the basic rules for safe and happy foraging, see foraging discussion board.

Last edited by cab on Mon Apr 11, 05 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45670
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 9:42 am Post subject:
Mochyn you sound like someone who'd just love to help me with the glossary, where we use the full Latin name as well as any common names: https://www.downsizer.net/index.php?option=com_glossary&catid=97&func=display&search=herb

mochyn

Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 9:44 am Post subject:
I suspect you're right: it would be high on the dullness quotient index. You can probably tell, though, it's a subject I feel strongly about. It's the only way to be sure we're talking about the same thing. Maybe some tweaking would be the thing: that, and recommending good books, such as Phillips various works.

mochyn

Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 9:45 am Post subject:
Maybe we should be making more of the glossary: I think that could solve the problem. If you need any help, give me a shout!

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45670
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 9:46 am Post subject:
I hope that any thing we "discover" on the forums can be added to the glossary. The only problem is how do you categorise useful non food plants?

mochyn

Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 9:48 am Post subject:
According to use? E.g. medicinal, dyers' herbs, paper-making... And then we'll need to cross-refer, of course...

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 9:49 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

I hope that any thing we "discover" on the forums can be added to the glossary. The only problem is how do you categorise useful non food plants?

How about having a category called 'useful non food plants'?

Or subdividing by dyers plants, craft plants, construction, etc?

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 9:50 am Post subject:

mochyn wrote:

According to use? E.g. medicinal, dyers' herbs, paper-making... And then we'll need to cross-refer, of course...

So something like nettle appears in dying, eating, ropemaking, papermaking, butterfly attracting, child deterring... I think I'll not hoe mine out now, I'm sold!

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45670
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 9:51 am Post subject:
Too many categories though, at teh moment the categories are: Health Wild Food Livestock IT & Business Grow Your Own We could do another one for "Non Food Plants"?

mochyn

Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 9:54 am Post subject:
Perhaps Useful non-food plants, eh? Otherwise it's a bit of a 'rest of the world' thing.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45670
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 05 9:55 am Post subject:
Hokey cokes, just need some plants to put in there now...

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