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Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 11:02 am Post subject:

Cho-ku-ri wrote:

Grass fed, free range 8 month old fat lambs are currently selling at British auction markets at below the cost of production, but consumers don't want that, they seem to prefer broiler chicken

Why?

Don't buy lambs at the auctions then. Simple.

Pimp my website.

Green Man

Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 12:58 pm Post subject:

Nick wrote:

Don't buy lambs at the auctions then. Simple.

Pimp my website.

Explain?

Green Man

Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 1:01 pm Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

Not all farmers had poor harvests, some had very good harvests and got a very good price. However, I don't think you can take just one year into account and there are options there.

By very good price do you mean about the same price as they used to get ten years ago? Because that is what most got.

You have missed the point, cereals are easier to grow than high protein crops so without the subsidy there is little incentive, leaving the E.U. with a shortage and the need to slash and burn in Brazil.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 1:45 pm Post subject:

Cho-ku-ri wrote:

Treacodactyl wrote:

Not all farmers had poor harvests, some had very good harvests and got a very good price. However, I don't think you can take just one year into account and there are options there.

I have no idea about the price 10 years ago, however haven't you missed my point? I.e. there are alternatives that may be being used or at least could be used. In 2006 613,000 tonnes of beans were grown in the UK (I don't have 2007 numbers) and some might have found their way into poultry feed. If not perhaps some might if there's a demand for more local production.

Green Man

Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 2:26 pm Post subject:

There is a gross shortage of protein in the E.U. Use the beans for poultry feed if you like, but it just leaves the shortage elsewhere. The current price for U.K. beans does not meet the amount needed for farmers to grow a riskier/ harder crop than cereal (also now in short supply). If consumers were prepared to pay for meats fed on local protein crops then of course they would be supplied, weather permitting. But the cheap price is what discourages E.U. farmers persevering with protein crops. Of course if farms were stocked at sustainable stock levels there would be no need to import any foods at all. It is only a farm that overstocks that needs to buy in foods. A well run mixed farm is self sufficient in animal feeds.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 2:38 pm Post subject:

Cho-ku-ri wrote:

Nick wrote:

Don't buy lambs at the auctions then. Simple.

Pimp my website.

Explain?

Click on the link, and buy lamb that are a) grass fed, b) from people you trust, c) Give them a fair deal and d) get them cheaper than you would at Tesco.

Green Man

Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 2:52 pm Post subject:
I agree, but why are the general public, who all claim to want free range natural foods not buying lamb, but they are buying broiler chicken by the billion? You could have bought a whole fat lamb a couple of months ago at Perth mart for �20.00.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 2:58 pm Post subject:
Sadly, they don't usually claim that's what they want. What they claim they want, and prove in spades, is cheap food.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 3:02 pm Post subject:

Nick wrote:

Jamanda wrote:

Not all meat is fed cereal. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Rob's is.

I believe his cows and sheep are grass fed, but his pigs are cereal fed. As far as possible he grows the cereal for them on his land, or buys it from next door.

Clearly, he'll yell when I have this all arse about face.

The marketing man is right.

We don't make enough of protein rich forages in this country, we're too concerned with high DM ryegrasses, which leaves a protein shortage. The whole 'we can't get protein over here' argument is fundamentally flawed & plays into the hands of multinationals such as Monsanto. There isn't just the two options and protein doesn't have to come from pulses.

I've worked through the animals species by species, starting with the cattle, through sheep & then pigs and we're now GM/soya free in all those. The poultry is next on the list, but as I only have a handful at present I don't have a meaningful sized group to work with, but the intention is to go GM free when we start poulty commercially.

The main ways to do it are to gear production to the seasons- nature provides protein at the most appropriate stages that coincide with an animals need (or, more accurately, the other way round).

I see this path as a journey along a linear road, working in more intensive systems I saw it as a roundabout with no exits- encircling & compounding problems. To those who says it is impossible to feed the world this way I disagree (for many reasons you can find in other places on the forum), I'm happier now moving an electric fence each day in the fresh air than I was wading through 40,000 birds picking up the dead ones, thinking about the journey the soya has made to feed them.

judith

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 3:03 pm Post subject:

Cho-ku-ri wrote:

I agree, but why are the general public, who all claim to want free range natural foods not buying lamb, but they are buying broiler chicken by the billion? You could have bought a whole fat lamb a couple of months ago at Perth mart for �20.00.

They are buying chicken because they believe it to be "healthy". Lamb is red meat and therefore "unhealthy".

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 3:04 pm Post subject:

Cho-ku-ri wrote:

Politics. Both Government and industry.

mochyn

Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 3:05 pm Post subject:
Does anyone use or know of a no-soya, non-gm feed for pigs and/or poultry? I'd really like to find one, as well as a non-factory farmed dry cat food.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 3:07 pm Post subject:

mochyn wrote:

I'd really like to find one, as well as a non-factory farmed dry cat food.

Hmmm... How do you make dried cat food?

mochyn

Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 3:18 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

mochyn wrote:

I'd really like to find one, as well as a non-factory farmed dry cat food.

Hmmm... How do you make dried cat food?

I hope you're not being facetious, young Rob...

I've tried the cats on tinned stuff and they hate it! There must be an alternative out there, somewhere...

I'd love to be able to grow enough for the pigs, bu twe don't have enough land and I can't afford to buy more...

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 08 3:21 pm Post subject:

LynneA wrote:

I'm tempted to have another go at growing some this year.

Anyone suggest a variety that will germinate AND grow in the UK?

I've never tried, but I'm told that someone on our allotments did okay with a variety called 'ustie'.

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