One mans way of making Chorizo

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One mans way of making Chorizo
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jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28235
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 7:11 am Post subject:

dougal wrote:

I suggested to Jema that *lack* of bacteria might explain his lack of success with Nitrate-curing bacon.

makes sense to me. I tried perhaps 5 or 6 times with salt-petre (two lots, in case my first salt-petre was duff) and it never worked well, but not knowing the bacteria might be good I kept things cool and cured or failed to! in the fridge.

sonnenkind

Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Isle Of Wight

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 8:36 am Post subject:

Ok so can someone tell me if this mix is alright.
I generally dry cure so I mix 5gr of saltpetre with 1 kilo of salt with as much or little sugar or whatever I want in the finished product, 5gr for me even though I do weigh it is a level tsp. Bacon always tastes good using this method and although I do have the meat up to room temp before curing this was probably just luck, so I'll be certain of doing this in future.
Thanks for the advice guy's

Blue Sky

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 7658
Location: France

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 8:43 am Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

Anyone confused?

Seriously, good advice guys. Goes to prove that we shouldn't believe everything we read...............oh.

... or watch

To quote HFW from the Pig in a day DVD:

Quote:

If in doubt, we like to leave this things out

(referring to saltpetre for his bacon cure)

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 8:51 am Post subject:

Simon wrote:

To quote HFW from the Pig in a day DVD:

Quote:

If in doubt, we like to leave this things out

(referring to saltpetre for his bacon cure)

Thats orders of magnitude less risky in bacon than it is in sausages. Green ham or green bacon isn't such a risk, curing sausages with nothing to drive the cure (saltpetre or a good bacterial inoculum) is rather more chancy.

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 2:03 pm Post subject:
I sent an E mail to the RC head Chef this morning and hopefully, I'll be getting a reply. Some what alarmed at the warnings given, I've since checked the RC Cookery Book and the recipe in there for chorizo is as per the DVD.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 2:31 pm Post subject:
This could be the start of something big. A way of getting publicity for DS for bringing up issues such as this.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 4:56 pm Post subject:

bodger wrote:

I sent an E mail to the RC head Chef this morning and hopefully, I'll be getting a reply.
Some what alarmed at the warnings given, I've since checked the RC Cookery Book and the recipe in there for chorizo is as per the DVD.

The recipe in the RC cook book adapts the salami one on the page before; you take the salami recipe and add other stuff to it. If you look at the recipe for salami, I'm sure HFW included 'acidophilus', and he might have even talked about getting it in health food shops.

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 5:14 pm Post subject:
and also included the line, which I quote directly - 'it's not essential and an alternative way to encourage mould is to hang your salami with mature specimens that already have a bloom of mould'.

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 5:29 pm Post subject:

We, thats myself and Hugh were talking Chorizo and not Salami. He, thats my new mate Hugh, has just been on the phone to me and completely put my mind at rest. He will look into the matters raised in this thread but assures me that after years of making chorizo in this manner and after having handed out many hundreds of samples , he is yet to poison anyone.
This is a farmhouse recipe and is not for commercial production and I will be tucking into mine quite happily in a few weeks time.

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 5:51 pm Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

and also included the line, which I quote directly - 'it's not essential and an alternative way to encourage mould is to hang your salami with mature specimens that already have a bloom of mould'.

As I remarked upthread, it is a mistake to confuse the surface mould ("bloom") with the culture providing the protective *internal* acidification.
They are very different organisms. {Sloppy terminology corrected!}

The surface moulds do protect against 'bad' moulds - but they actually eat the lactic acid that the internal acidophilus has produced!
Therefore a natural 'bloom' is an indication that acidification has occurred.

In the US "Bactoferm" branded cultures are common.
For anti-botulism acidification its their "F-RM" product which contains "selected strains of Lactobacillus curvatus and Staphylococcus carnosus" :
Datasheet Link

Quote:

Bactoferm� F-RM-52 is a freeze-dried culture well suited for all fermented sausages where a relatively fast acidification is desired. The culture is recommended for the production of traditional North European types of fermented, dry sausages with a sourly flavor note.
Bactoferm� F-RM-52 is a combination of carefully selected strains of Lactobacillus curvatus and Staphylococcus carnosus, which create a combination of fast acidification, and positive mild aroma developments as well as a stable color in the product. The final pH may be adjusted with the amount of fermentable sugars added to the meat mix.

Bactoferm� F-RM-52 works well within a range of sugar levels from 1/2% to 1%. Dextrose is usually used as the fermentable sugar.

And for the surface bloom, its "M-EK-4" based on Penicillium nalgiovense :
Catalogue Link

Quote:

M-EK-4 suppresses the growth of undesirable organisms such as indigenous moulds, yeasts and bacteria. The culture has a positive effect on the drying process by preventing the emergence of a dry rim. Furthermore, the mould degrades lactic acid during maturation resulting in a pH increase {meaning an acidity decrease} and a less sourish flavour.

The surface bloom is related to the surface moulds on Brie and Camembert - and I've heard of those cheese rinds being used to create an inoculum.

Last edited by dougal on Tue Apr 01, 08 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 6:05 pm Post subject:

bodger wrote:

Good for him. I think he's being a little bit foolhardy if he leaves out anything to cure his sausages.

Yes, you'll almost always get away with it. I wouldn't chance it though because its an entirely pointless increase in risk.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 6:08 pm Post subject:

dougal wrote:

As I remarked upthread, it is a mistake to confuse the surface mould ("bloom") with the culture providing the protective *internal* acidification.
They are very different bacteria.

The blook is mould, its fungus. It isn't a bacterium

Quote:

The surface moulds do protect against 'bad' moulds - but they actually eat the lactic acid that the internal acidophilus has produced!
Therefore a natural 'bloom' is an indication that acidification has occurred.

An oversimplification; the low pH and lactic acid content encourages the growth of fungi that cure the sausage, and the lactic acid production itself helps preserve the culture... And of course theh lower pH and salt content combined help too.

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 6:14 pm Post subject:

Quote:

... talking Chorizo and not Salami ...

Anyone care to explain how the name makes any difference in food safety terms?

I repeat what I put upthread.
It does seem that HFW is confusing chorizo for cooking with chorizo for drying.
Its a perfectly reasonable recipe for a cooking chorizo.

cab wrote:

an entirely pointless increase in risk

dougal wrote:

Its a significant risk of serious consequences.
Its not a certainty.
But it is a form of russian roulette.
And totally unnecessary.

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 6:24 pm Post subject:
"Almost Always" ? Don't you think we would have heard just a teency weency little bit of something if ANYONE had poisoned themselves using HFWs recipe for Chorizo ?

Behemoth

Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 08 6:25 pm Post subject:
"aaaarrrkkkghhh..." thud. Nope.

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