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jamanda
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35057
Location: Devon

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 6:51 am Post subject: Swearing
We have recently had a number of complaints about the amount of swearing on the forum. This includes the practice of using swear words but putting symbols or asterisks in place of some of the letters. Would all contributors please remind themselves of the discussion guidelines. Particularly the bit that says "profanity is strictly unacceptable. Pre 9pm TV should be the standard".

marigold

Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12458
Location: West Sussex

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 7:41 am Post subject:

I suppose it's terribly terribly childish of me, but the no rude words rule makes me want to scream asterisks. I can't imagine that many people over the age of 13 haven't heard/used all the words and the prohibition strikes me as prudish and unrealistic in the modern world.

I'm not arguing in favour of effing and blinding for the sake of it (am I allowed to use those euphemisms?), but what's wrong with reflecting the real world where real people occasionally say a naughty word in front of the kiddies?

Bernie66

Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 13967
Location: Eastoft

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 7:47 am Post subject:
There has to be a line somewhere, and trying to determine which swearing is ok and which isnt is too difficult and based on ones own feelings. Some words and usage that is ok with of could be completely offensive to you To use pre watershed is a line that most can relate to even if they, or their kids are happy to and use more colourful language, innuendo etc.

marigold

Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12458
Location: West Sussex

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 7:50 am Post subject:
So what are the pre-watershed guidelines? I don't watch TV, so my views on what is and is not acceptable behaviour are not formed by it.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 7:50 am Post subject:

The problem is where to draw the line and picking the 9pm watershed seems the best solution. We don't pick up every swearword as it's not realistic but what tends to happen is more and more creep in (even from moderators) and if left unchecked the site would end up with too many and that would put off people allowing their children to use it and it would put off adults. I've seen a few sites where there's just too much swearing and it really puts me off, I'm not a prude and I can swear a fair bit myself.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 7:50 am Post subject:

marigold wrote:

So what are the pre-watershed guidelines? I don't watch TV, so my views on what is and is not acceptable behaviour are not formed by it.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/ifi/codes/bcode/protectingu18/

Mrs R

Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 7202

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Swearing

Jamanda wrote:

"profanity is strictly unacceptable. Pre 9pm TV should be the standard".

Do i really have to remind you again?

Mrs R

Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 7202

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 7:53 am Post subject:
what if we completely cover the word with asterisks, like the beep over censored words on radio?

mochyn

Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 7:55 am Post subject:

Ixy wrote:

what if we *completely* cover the word with asterisks, like the beep over censored words on radio?

Then the child can insert the expletive of his/her choice!

marigold

Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12458
Location: West Sussex

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 7:57 am Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

marigold wrote:

So what are the pre-watershed guidelines? I don't watch TV, so my views on what is and is not acceptable behaviour are not formed by it.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/ifi/codes/bcode/protectingu18/

Thanks - unfortunately the page won't load on my computer, so I'm none the wiser

JohnB

Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 685
Location: Beautiful sunny West Wales!

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 8:03 am Post subject:
I used the a word that might be mildly insulting to some people, but wasn't a swear word, on a forum that has automatic word censoring. It got replaced by [Censored] and gave the impression that I'd actually used much stronger language than I would have dreamt of using. I was really impressed

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 8:07 am Post subject:
While I accept that a strict list of prohibited words would have its failings, I think that the fact that Marigold has posted here saying that its confusing, and Silas has more than hinted at confusion elsewhere, is sufficient to make it clear that such a list would be a better solution. Certainly better than 'we'll make an objective judgment call after the event each time'.

bagpuss

Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 8:09 am Post subject:

JohnB wrote:

I used the a word that might be mildly insulting to some people, but wasn't a swear word, on a forum that has automatic word censoring. It got replaced by [Censored] and gave the impression that I'd actually used much stronger language than I would have dreamt of using. I was really impressed

We have no intention of introducing automatic censorship of any form on the site.

We ask that people don't us swear words and we appreciate that both mods and members will sometimes forget and thats fine

Its just currently everyone seems to be using more language that some find offensive so we are just reminding everyone that its best to try and avoid it

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 8:12 am Post subject:
I don't think it makes it 'clear' a list would be better at all. I can see it might not always be clear just asking people not to swear but I think most people know what they shouldn't write. If you have a list people will just deliberately find words not on it and I really can't be bothered by such pettiness.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 09 8:18 am Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

I don't think it makes it 'clear' a list would be better at all. I can see it might not always be clear just asking people not to swear but I think most people know what they shouldn't write. If you have a list people will just deliberately find words not on it and I really can't be bothered by such pettiness.

If sufficient people know what they shouldn't write then this is not a problem, then as it can't be a problem this announcement would not be needed

Clearly it is perceived as a problem or this wouldn't have arisen.

You can come up with a list of words that are clearly very offensive in nearly any context, thats easy enough, but below that are dozens of terms that are less clear, and at present it isn't obvious which are allowed and which are not. Seems to me that if people weren't confused about what was allowed then this wouldn't even be an issue.

You're not (I presume) trying to get people not to say 'ruddy blinking flip, smegma breath'. But thats just a presumption, I actually don't know. If my own limits for what is a profanity is close to yours you'll probably agree with me on what is or is not allowed, but its obvious that not everyone has the same limits.

Don't have a list and you're pitting multiple sets of subjective views on this from a modding group against many more from those posting. Strikes me thats a needlessly confrontational way of doing things; better and less confusing would be to have an up front list to back up, inform and in some way standardise modding decisions.

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