Do I really need a new fridge?

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Do I really need a new fridge?
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Downsizer Forum Index -> Reduce, Reuse, Recycle

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marigold

Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12458
Location: West Sussex

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 09 11:02 am Post subject:
Some friends had this dilemma a while ago, it was solved when the 20+ year old fridge/freezer died of natural causes and they had to replace it anyway. Ponder long enough and the problem will solve itself... .

Lorrainelovesplants

Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 6521
Location: Dordogne

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 09 11:11 am Post subject:

We got a fridge on freecycle about 2 months ago.
We needed a second fridge for me to keep my eggs in (only eggs), and it had to be reasonably new, so we went on freecycle with the aim to get a reasonable one. Our existing fridge could then be used for the eggs, and the freecycle one we'd use.

A lovely couple in wadebridge offered us theirs.
When we went to collect it, it was sparkling! Less than 2 months old, and they were replacing it because they had just bought a new kitchen from Ikea and the white goods were all included!

2month old fridge! Clean as if they'd never used it!

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 09 11:16 am Post subject:

jema wrote:

We really need somewhere where you can see the figures though

I'm sure we discussed this yonks back, but is there a way you can create a simple database for facts and figures like this, something searchable and useful for calculations? A sort of downsizer facts and figures wiki/database?

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 09 11:16 am Post subject:

JB wrote:

vegplot wrote:

They are disposed of properly if taken to a recycling station. If you have a refrigerant leak in an old fridge you'll be pumping out CFC's. Better to have it 'put down' properly to avoid this happening.

Do they tend to leak? I would have thought a refrigerant leak would have been a total failure of the fridge, hence the reason I thought it was unlikely.

It's 18 years old and therefore as time goes by the risk becomes greater. Combine this with a lower energy consumption of a new fridge it makes sense to do this before the old fridge fails.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 09 11:18 am Post subject:

Lorrainelovesplants wrote:

Doesn't that dehydrate them?

Lorrainelovesplants

Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 6521
Location: Dordogne

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 09 11:23 am Post subject:
No, according to the CIEH Food Safety course I did yesterday, eggs are best stored in chilled conditions, between 0 and 5 degrees. This prevents any bacterial growth. (Best practice).

Jb

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 7761
Location: 91� N

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 09 11:28 am Post subject:

Lorrainelovesplants wrote:

No, according to the CIEH Food Safety course I did yesterday, eggs are best stored in chilled conditions, between 0 and 5 degrees. This prevents any bacterial growth.
(Best practice).

So why do shops not bother with chilled storage for eggs?

stumbling goat

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1990

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 09 1:14 pm Post subject:

the new fridge is in the shop anyway. so you are not an eco murderer in that regard.

the cost of disposal of your old fridge can be minimised if you take it by non powered transport, an already owned wheelbarrow or sack barrow, it would be counter productive to have to go and buy a new one. if too heavy and ypu do not have a sack barrow you could dismantle it and take it part by part to the recycling plant. depends how earnest you are in being ecopositive.

but why get rid of it? just because it is uneconomic to run or not ecoefficient enough for your tastes does not mean it has no use to you at all. you could use it as a cupboard or as some form of air tight storage. reuse it.

z0

cassy

Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 1047
Location: South West Scotland

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 09 1:35 pm Post subject:
Does anyone know of a way to make fridges/freezers safe at home, or do you have to take it somewhere? I'm particularly thinking about the CFCs or other gasses, rather than the electrics.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 09 1:39 pm Post subject:

stumbling goat wrote:

reuse it.z0

How do you ensure you won't leak CFC's? Fridges make great air tight cupboards for storing feed but they do get abused and knocked aorund.

Pilsbury

Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 5645
Location: East london/Essex

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 09 1:39 pm Post subject:

JB wrote:

Lorrainelovesplants wrote:

No, according to the CIEH Food Safety course I did yesterday, eggs are best stored in chilled conditions, between 0 and 5 degrees. This prevents any bacterial growth.
(Best practice).

So why do shops not bother with chilled storage for eggs?

Because chilled storage is only best practice, not law therefore there is no legal requirement to chill them so shops wont bother, its cheaper to just stack them on the shelves.

stumbling goat

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1990

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 09 2:33 pm Post subject:
if you reuse it for another purpose you may also consider the need for making it safe so that children can not get trapped in it if playing. as for cfc escape, would your local authority environmental health department be able to assist you with that question? good luck d4

Midland Spinner

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 2931
Location: Under a green roof

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 09 8:56 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all your input people, it�s been thought provoking to read the various replies.
To recap on the opinions so far:
Economically it probably makes sense in the long term to upgrade my fridge*, but to find out I�d have to get an energy monitor � say �20-30, but I might save myself �25-50 per year so it would pay for itself in about 2 - 3 years. (A new fridge will cost me at least �107 (cheapest I could find on a quick google), but that one probably won�t last long enough to pay back its energy debt to the planet.) But I knew that anyway � my dilemma is whether it�s environmentally worth it.

* The budget is stretched fairly tight at the moment, but IF it was worth it to the environment as well we might take the plunge and do without something else for a few months to scrape the money up, but if it�s environmentally wrong to replace it, then hey, money for food is good, but the occasional beer is nice too.
I did find a blog where someone had calculated the embodied energy of a generic fridge and worked out that it would take 3.5 years for the fridge to save that amount of energy, but it was based on fag-packet calculations and estimated figures (turns out the industry don�t give out details of the energy used to manufacture fridges...no surprise there!). But then it turned out that he�d made a mistake in the maths and is no longer sure of his figures, so after reading three pages of maths, he ends by saying �don�t rely on these figures...� So I�m no further forward on that question, I didn�t bother noting down the url because frankly why should you lot have to wade through three pages to get to the disclaimer at the end as well.
My fridge might contain CFCs (although I seem to remember that we paid more at the time to get one which didn�t, although I can�t find the paperwork, so maybe that�s wishful thinking). If it does contain CFCs they might leak out, which I hadn�t thought of before. It�s working OK at the minute (stops to touch wood) so I guess that that indicates that it has a fair amount of the refrigerant fluid still in place. Disposing of the fridge increases the chance that the CFCs will leak out during disposal.
If I decide to replace it I could try to re-use it here � no children to worry about getting trapped in it, but also limited space for derelict white goods, and anyway I�d have to safely dispose of the refrigerant first. Can�t use it as a cupboard because there�s no space, don�t want it in the garden (ditto), so could take it to the local �household recycling site� that�s three miles away, up hill, I think that it might fit on my bike trailer size-wise, but would probably be over the SWL, and anyway the roads are scary enough without emulating Tony Hawkes (�Around Ireland with a Fridge�). So there would be some fossil fuel involved in transport. I don�t know if the council would charge me for the disposal.
So to sum up: I still don�t know if I should or not. But it�s getting gradually noisier over the passage of time, so I guess that Marigold will have the last say.

marigold wrote:

Ponder long enough and the problem will solve itself...

Midland Spinner

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 2931
Location: Under a green roof

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 10 11:38 am Post subject:

Update:
We have finally replaced the fridge & freezer (big thanks to the generosity of my late Great Uncle!!!) We knew it was time when the plastic handle on the freezer came off in our hands because the plastic had got brittle with age and we had to open the door by wrapping our fingers round the edge....

We got A rated (obviously!) tried for A+ but no joy. It's already quieter in the kitchen even though they are currently busy getting down to temperature. I'm off out into the garden shortly to plant a few tree seeds to offset the fact that we didn't get A+ (actually I'd have planted them anyway, but .....)

We paid the shop to take the old ones away, so they are probably having their innards recycled as we speak.

T.G

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Posts: 7280
Location: Somewhere you're not

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 10 11:57 am Post subject:

marigold wrote:

Some friends had this dilemma a while ago, it was solved when the 20+ year old fridge/freezer died of natural causes and they had to replace it anyway. Ponder long enough and the problem will solve itself...

just on a side note - anyone with a chest freezer thats died, lots of horsey folk take them off your hands for rodent proof feed bins, so its worth offering even dead chest freezers on freecycle/free ads etc.

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