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Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 05 11:27 am Post subject:

I went through a phase of using energy saving bulbs but I found the often blew just as often as a normal bulb. Not sure if our power supply was any more dodgy than anyone else. I now only use them in the one or two rooms where the light is often on. I still think far more should be done to get people to turn lights off, most of the houses round here have most of the rooms lit up at night and a few 500W outside lights on for good measure.

Andy B

Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 3920
Location: Brum

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 05 11:33 am Post subject:
They may be cost effective at the user end! but they look more complex to make than an ordinary bulb, so are they less cost effective at the manufacture end.

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 05 11:41 am Post subject:

Andy B wrote:

They may be cost effective at the user end! but they look more complex to make than an ordinary bulb, so are they less cost effective at the manufacture end.

Probably, but you also have economies of scale in volume manufacturing, as more people adopt them then they come down in price. But you need to compare it to their average lifespan, and compare the process to make one low voltage bulb to between 8 and 15 ordinary bulbs.

Andy B

Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 3920
Location: Brum

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 05 11:54 am Post subject:
I do use them. But in Brum it never gets truly dark. I can walk around the house at 2 in the morning and see perfectly well.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28233
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 9:09 am Post subject:

Well in the Kitchen I am now set up with an over cooker light, an over worktop florescent, and two dimmer switches powering on group of all LED bulbs, and one with two halogens and two LEDs.

The LEDs are simply too pathetic by themselve, and the newly installed dimmer switches should prevent the Halogens from blowing continually.

Hopefully all together this should be energy saving, whilst still giving enough light. I do have to work in a dark kitchen, and as ours is lit mainly bu a north facing window, the lights do tend to be on more often than not

tawny owl

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 563
Location: Hampshire

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 12:48 pm Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

I found they blew even more often, and that's not cheap! I turn off the lights now too. I've got an ESB in the garage and in the spare bedrooms, but anywhere I'm going to be for any period of time has halogens, as I find the light from the ESBs gives me very bad headaches.

PastPresentFuture

Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 21
Location: London

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 05 1:12 pm Post subject:

OK, I'm sure you have all seen the garden lanterns with white-light LED's in them. Simple premise, battery charges with solar power during the day, low power led bulb comes on at night. I disagree with jema on the point of LED bulbs being too dim, partly because I'm a disagreeable person and partly because its a subject I have given much thought to.

I used to live on a Narrowboat for about 3 years, on the boat I had a 12V lighting ring and 20w bulbs which meant I rarely had to run the engine in order to recharge the domestic battery. OK it was a very low light environment but I could still read without eyestrain and find things on the floor.

I have recently changed over to all LED lighting in my bedroom. 4 x 12v 1.5w 18 diode white spotlamps, which still provides enough light to read without eyestrain. At the moment I am running this off the mains but quite honestly I see no reason to run the lighting ring in any domestic household off of mains electricty any more. The lighting could all be a closed independent circuit with a couple of 12v heavy duty batteries being charged by wind and solar energy and using LED bulbs. These bulbs are rated for 30,000 hours average lifetime but I suspect they will operate far beyond this.

Already most local government departments are switching over to LEDs for traffic lights because the are super-efficient and will not need replacing nearly as often.

So in summary, you could easily turn your entire house into a big independent solar storage lantern and save the national grid loads of energy with a low maintenance system which would probably last for your lifetime and many subsequent lifetimes. If you find LED bulbs too dim add more to the system and make your walls an celings a light reflective colour. Plus if there is a power cut your lighting ring would be completely unaffected.

This is a far more ecologicaly sound and efficient method of lighting your home than flourescent bulbs which still rely on the national grid.

Sorry if this post covers ground thats already been covered, I haven't been able to read through everything here yet.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28233
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 05 1:52 pm Post subject:
I'd love to be able to agree about the Leds, but with 7 of them in the Kitchen, it was pretty hopeless. But no doubt they will get better.

PastPresentFuture

Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 21
Location: London

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 05 1:58 pm Post subject:
What kind of LED's were you using jema?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 05 2:31 pm Post subject:

PastPresentFuture wrote:

What kind of LED's were you using jema?

I tried to find the website again the other day but it had disappeared, anyway i got some too and the light is probably 1/2 of a normal 12v halogen and it's very blue.

PastPresentFuture

Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 21
Location: London

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 05 3:06 pm Post subject: Brightness concerns?

I think the main problem here is that you are trying to integrate the LED bulbs into the existing lighting ring. The lighting ring in most households is not ideal for this type of bulb because there are not enough sockets. What I am suggesting is removing or bypassing the outmoded lighting ring altogether and replacing it with a new type of system. You can design a flexible lighting arrangement for comparitively little cost using components such as the Brite Strip seen here ; https://www.3dzled.com/interior.html The major cost of installing an effective and self powered lighting system would be the solar panels, wind turbine, batteries - recharge system.

The white and blue bulbs, as you say, have a blueish hue but there are red and yellow variants available which you can mix and match with.

I honestly believe this is the ultimate way forward in terms of a self-sustaining domestic lighting arrangement, that is until someone invents a jar which literally stores sunlight.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 05 3:14 pm Post subject:
Yup, if we ever build a new house it'll be mostly LED, but to (sensibly) retro fit on our old house isn't worth it

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28233
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 05 3:26 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

PastPresentFuture wrote:

What kind of LED's were you using jema?

I tried to find the website again the other day but it had disappeared, anyway i got some too and the light is probably 1/2 of a normal 12v halogen and it's very blue.

I can't find the info either

I'd agree on the blue tinge, but I think 1/2 is optimisitic. I am not sure I'd place it more than 1/3.

Res

Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1172
Location: Allotment Shed, Harlow

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 05 4:06 pm Post subject:

I have energy bulbs troughout the flat in every room plus one halogen over the kitchen sink. They are all the 40w equivent, I think they are 9w in real terms. They were a bit wierd to get used to at first because there is a delay from when you switch them on till they are at full power, like someone turning them on by a slow dimmer switch, but we are quite happy with them now and have not had any of them blow and we have had them nearly 2 years.

I might be tempted to use LEDs in the three lounge lamps we have on at night, two standard and one table lamp, as soft lighting and if the LEDs are not as bright as them, I would add at least one more but I dont think we could warrent the cost of converting over the solar/wind power in a privately vented place.

culpepper

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 638
Location: Kent

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 05 4:55 pm Post subject:
We buy the 40w equivalent energy saving bulbs from ikea.Our whole house uses them,even the pantry and tumble drier cupboard. They dont need replacing very often at all.I think we buy about 4 a year and there are at least 12 light fittings in our house.

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