Posh composting toilets

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chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35935
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 07 12:58 pm Post subject: Posh composting toilets

Anyone know anything about Envirolet composting toilets? Our prospective new place has a non-mains water supply and a composting set-up would take a lot of pressure off of the spring. I *think* I saw these installed on a campsite in the second series of INEBG - they are pretty expensive, but it might be worth spending the money as a replacement for a flush-WC in the bathroom 'proper' because it would reduce our water consumption by so much.

Any thoughts? I'm having a good google round

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 07 1:01 pm Post subject:
Is water usage an issue for you? Wales is hardly dry....

chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35935
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 07 1:10 pm Post subject:

We aren't sure how reliable the spring is - the vendors have only been using the house as a weekend cottage. They say that they have never had any problems with the spring; but they haven't been using the water for the washing machine etc. every day for nappies etc..

I'm also looking at rainwater collection systems - but it does look like as though, although the winters are very wet, the summers are getting increasingly dry; so storage is an issue and isn't about 30% of a household's water used for the loo? It just seemed sensible to explore options. Particularly ones that could be actually put in the bathroom

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 07 1:15 pm Post subject:

No mains water?

The reason I'm asking is that Nick Grant (one of the AECB bods and a water consultant by trade) advised me (spring on site with loads of water) that any money spent on greywater usage, reedbeds and suchlike would be better spent on energy efficiency/insulation. He says if you're on mains water/sewage then don't worry too much, as long as you're using low flush bogs etc (he designed the Iso summat or other)

https://www.solutionelements.co.uk/

chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35935
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 07 1:19 pm Post subject:

Thanks, I'll explore the site, it looks great - but no no, no mains water. Water from a kind of reedy bit of the field just over the road, blocked off from the farmer's sheep with hurdles, actually. (We are, of course, going to have it tested

).

I had heard that about the greywater/insulation payoff - but I am bit yippy about the water because some friends of ours in Devon (less rain than here, admittedly) spend every summer biting their nails waiting for their well to start pumping mud ... .

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 07 1:21 pm Post subject:
Then Nick's your man, talk to him (really lovely guy), he's in Herefordshire so not too far away to visit if necessary.

boisdevie1

Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3897
Location: Lancaster

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 07 2:34 pm Post subject:
Re rainwater harvesting. I know in France you can buy a 10,000 litre tank for as little as 1200 euros. Or how about building a concrete holding tank. Can't imagine it would cost that much. Rainwater harvesting is what I'm going to do with my barn conversion in France so it's a subject I've been pondering for a while.

chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35935
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 07 7:18 pm Post subject:

I don't like the idea of concrete - too energy-heavy - but I have seen some HUGE plastic containers around - that used to hold orange juice and stuff like that - about ten feet tall and probably as much in circumference. I was planning on daisy-chaining at least a couple of them together to harvest rainwater for the garden.

However, my feeling is that without some kind of quite complex storage and filtering process, a long, dry summer would leave us flushing the loo with manky green sludge. So a stand-alone, no-water-at-all-required composting loo would be a decent alternative.

pookie

Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 4984
Location: Mid-Wales

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 07 8:34 pm Post subject:
sorry I don't have anything sensible to add, just wanted to use this emoticon

chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35935
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 07 10:27 am Post subject:

pookie wrote:

sorry I don't have anything sensible to add, just wanted to use this emoticon

Look at all the water that emoticon is wasting!

Green Man

Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 07 10:42 am Post subject:
I wonder if these composting toilets will allow people to build homes in areas where waste water stops planning?

chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35935
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 07 10:45 am Post subject:
That's an interesting thought. They are pretty high-tech and there are versions that don't need electricity to run either. If memory serves though, the ones the INEBG team helped to install were run off a small wind turbine/battery bank set up. The website has all sorts of examples of where they've been used.

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 07 10:50 am Post subject:

Chez, my understanding is that keeping the water 'sweet' in storage is the tricky bit.
One reason for underground tank location is to exclude light - reducing biological activity.

And it sounds like, for security of supply, you could do with a fair bit of storage capacity.

While the garden wouldn't worry about being irregated with stuff that looked like it had come out of a ditch, and you could flush a loo with non-sweet water, you have need of some secure sweet water supply for washing and drinking. All the more so with the numbers due to increase!

Can't help with composting loos. Maybe you should ask Judy about her Mark 2 ideas https://www.judyofthewoods.net/waste.html

But, as a very small part of any overall water management strategy, I'd still recommend fitting one of these to any conventional loo.
https://www.interflush.co.uk/
and for non-plumbers, its the green bits in the homepage photo.
Small, simple, clever - it enables the person flushing to adjust how much water is used each time.
It stops when you let go the lever.
Simple. Clever.

chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35935
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 07 11:01 am Post subject:
Thanks Dougal, much appreciated. The spring-fed supply is sweet - the current owners have been using it for drinking/washing etc whilst they are there at weekends and for holidays. It's the worry that our constant use will put a strain on the spring, particularly in the summer, that is making us look at sensible alternatives.

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 07 11:26 am Post subject:

Chez, are you using everything the spring is offering?
It sounds to me as though water storage (for security of supply) could be pretty important to you.

Its more likely that the spring would run dry of its own accord during a drought, rather than that you would "drink it dry".
Put another way, I doubt that the flow from the spring is being determined by your usage.
If you have surplus supply from the spring, that you could store, then the gathering of rainwater need not be part of your 'house' water supply.

However, storing rainwater for garden use (which wouldn't need to be kept 'sweet') would be an additional part of the strategy of reducing your demand from the spring, particularly in time of drought.
And since you never know when a drought is going to start, you should be taking every opportunity to top up your stored supply.

With a supply of sweet water, whether from rain, spring or both, the problem that I was flagging up is that it needs to be kept sweet while in storage.
Give water some air, some warmth and some light and it *will* go green.
Storing it in an underground tank deals with the light aspect and helps to *keep* it sweet.
Similarly, filtration and probably UV sterilisation would be part of making any water storage a 'potable' water supply (drinkable, nothing to do with loos

).

Any reduction in consumption, such as with the Varyflush thing (or a composting loo), would reduce the storage requirement (or put another way, increase the length of drought you could handle) and speed the refilling of your storage.

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