Soap Hell - Help!

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Soap Hell - Help!

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Moira
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 05 10:42 am Post subject: Soap Hell - Help!

Hello there, not sure if anyone would still be looking at the soap making thread, hence this one.
I tried making soap using grapeseed and sunflower oil and used chammomile water with the caustic soda, heated everything up to about hand-hot. I mixed it together and hey presto - I ended up with a sloppy mess that I gave up stirring and when I came back to it later on, there was a glut of very runny stuff on top and thicker, more yellow, gloop underneath.

Do you need exact temperatures? Is it very important to use exact measurements? Lots of recipes give all measurements in grams, including water. How can you have a gram of water? Am I being very dense about this or is there some secret to it that I am missing out on?

I did try heating it again but this made no difference. What should I do with the glop, as it must still be caustic how can I safely dispose of it?

Help!

thank you.

Moira
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 05 10:49 am Post subject: Soap Hell
By the way, the gloopy stuff underneath the thick layer of runny stuff was quite thick but fragmented, looked like curdled milk.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 05 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Soap Hell - Help!

Moira, you can weigh water like you weigh anything else, so a gram of water makes sense. You can approximate and use 1ml=1g, and that kind of works, but beware that you will ever, ever so slightly be out (unless you do everything at a specific temperature).

Temp control doesn't matter THAT much in cold process soap; this is cold processing is it? Starting at the right temperature does speed things up, but being at the wrong temp will still work eventually.

It might just be the case that grapeseed and sunflower seed together will not reach trace very fast at all. Give it a really good mixing now, keep coming back for a bit to get it mixed, and as soon as you have any kind of trace at all put it into the molds and leave it be. It might not turn out great, but it should set and it will be safe to dispose of or use as laundry soap even if it is poor.

But relax, it might still turn out lovely

Worst case scenario, it doesn't work, wash it down the sink with plenty of water. Nothing so very nasty in there that can't be diluted. Handle it with care (gloves and glasses would be good) if you need to do that.

Moira
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 05 12:17 pm Post subject: Thanks
Okay Cab, thanks for that reassuring voice. I'm going to give it another try. My home-ed teacher used to tut under her breath when it came to weighing liquid ingredients, and I'm so used to fluid ounces or mills the thought of actually weighing didn't sit right in my little brain which struggles every time numbers are mentioned. Thanks again, Moira.

Stacey

Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 8380
Location: Kernow

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 05 1:01 pm Post subject:
Sometimes it can take my soap 5 minutes with a stick blender to reach trace so if you're stirring by hand it could take much much longer.

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 05 4:42 pm Post subject:

The measurements do need to be very very exact, or you run the risk of making soap that just won't do what you want, and in a worst case scenario, could even be too harsh to use. It does sound though as if it was starting to get there, you just needed to keep at it. Now that a bit of time has passed, is i starting to enter its gel phase (will go very hot and sort of look like brown vaseline) thats always a sign that its cooking properly

Moira
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 05 7:21 pm Post subject: Not a chance..
this is going to end up as soap. I tried another batch, which is not separating but still very runny and this is a lot later on... I got bored stirring it and put it in moulds anyway but have no hope left for it. It is completely cold and not remotely changing or vaseline like. Oh well... I used all sunflower oil for this one but perhaps I'm not destined to be a soap maker..

Bugs

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10744

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 05 7:40 pm Post subject:

Moira, I'm not expert, I can't begin to tell you what a not expert I am, but I have been following Sally, Cab and other people's posts carefully because I want to have a bash myself sometime soon, and you haven't mentioned the different measurements of caustic soda to oil. I know different oils require very specific amounts of caustic soda to ... alert.. alert... Bugs is using a term she doesn't understand... saponify... and I find the charts quite complicated. Is there any chance this could be where your recipe has lead you astray?

Apologies if I am butting in (well, because, not if!) but I really want this to work for you

pink bouncy

Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 174

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 05 7:47 pm Post subject:

Hi Moira, it can seem really hard your first few times making soap but when it clicks, it really clicks and it is great.

I like to keep my soapmaking fairly simple, using oils and fats that have the soap qualities that I like. I use lard to give a good hard bar that cleans well, some coconut oil to give it a rich lather and a little rapeseed oil to give the lather a conditioning quality (coconut oil can be a little harsh without it).
Have a look at this site to get some idea of the different qualities different oils have:

https://www.soapnuts.com/indexoils.html

And do consider using a stick blender for getting your oils to trace, it really takes the elbow grease out of soapmaking.

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 05 7:51 pm Post subject:

Bugs makes a very good point. Try running your recipe through this calculator https://www.thesage.com/calcs/lyecalc2.php

All you do is plug in the weight of oils and it tells you how much lye and how much water to use, (with the max and minimum amounts of each that will still work). If you have weighed everything within that range, used the right sort of lye (you'd be amazed how often people try to use washing soda not caustic soda) started the oil and lye at roughly similar temps, and kept stirring until trace, then insulated the mould well while it does the gel phase, then it really should work, honest.

Moira
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 05 8:54 am Post subject: Hot or not..

Hi everyone,

All right, I shall try again - you have all been so encouraging.

I'm pretty sure my measurements were right but one thing I'm not sure about...

Sally said to insulate the soap moulds. Does this mean the mixture should stay warm throughout the whole process? Mine was cooled down gradually after a few minutes of stirring.

As for the stick blender, I did try using one but as I was only making a smaller batch, it had a tendency to splash so I took to a whisk to it instead. Are you meant to stir it continually? I got fed up after around 20 minutes and only stirred about every 5 mins after that. This morning the mixture (which I put into moulds anway) had a thin layer of grease on top and a much thicker layer of gooey whitish stuff underneath, which did have a trace to it. I'm going to leave it until this evening/tomorrow and see what happens. Is it normal for soap to have some residue on top that needs discarding?

Oh blimey, this is no good. I'm off to make bread...

Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 05 11:26 am Post subject:
I wrap my moulds in a towel for 24 hours to insulate it, then the towel comes off, soap out of the mould and into the airing cupboard to cure for 4 weeks. I stir intermittently with a wooden spoon, and have had excellent results in the soaps I've made so far. Never had anything to pour off the top, though, so can't help you with that one. I'm careful with my weighing and temperatures.

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