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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46232
Location: yes

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 10:29 am Post subject: local/domestic energy storage
this seems a good development,they are a bit expensive but if they are serious about producing a couple of billion of them i suspect the costs will drop. there are other developments in battery tech but this crew do have the ability to go for mass production quite quickly.

henchard

Joined: 23 Aug 2012
Posts: 232
Location: Carmarthenshire

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 12:59 pm Post subject:
um......... now I could store my generated solar during the day and put it back through the generation meter at night. There's probably a flaw in that plan somewhere!

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 1:43 pm Post subject:
These looked promising.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46232
Location: yes

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 2:52 pm Post subject:
the velkess ones are quite big and heavy compared to the paypal chaps offering. from the few bits i have heard about battery tech developments it might be that before they make 2 billion of them they could be using a better design and they will store ten times as much for the same size and cost i suspect batteries are subject to a version of moore's law of pooters

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 3:28 pm Post subject:
Velkess are flywheels, not batteries.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 3:50 pm Post subject:
Another link for an article on Tesla battery. $3,000 for a 7kw battery with a ten year guarantee (plus installation). That's only $300 a year. How much do you want to bet it will be more than double that when it's released in the UK? Even then it's a good investment IMHO. I know people who spend �300 a quarter on leccy.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 4:15 pm Post subject:
Excuse my lack of faith in battery reliability: it needs to last at least 10 years doing a full cycle or less every day.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46232
Location: yes

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 6:33 pm Post subject:

Hairyloon wrote:

Velkess are flywheels, not batteries.

yep big and heavy

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 6:40 pm Post subject:
But not plagued by chemical breakdown, or whatever it is that kills batteries.

RichardW

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 7:08 pm Post subject:

Tavascarow wrote:

Another link for an article on Tesla battery. $3,000 for a 7kw battery with a ten year guarantee (plus installation). That's only $300 a year.

How much do you want to bet it will be more than double that when it's released in the UK?
Even then it's a good investment IMHO. I know people who spend �300 a quarter on leccy.

See my reply to your other post.

�300 per quarter is �3.28 per day or 23kWh per day at 14p per unit. A 7kWh unit is not going to replace that �300 a quarter bill. You need 3 of them, still think its a good investment? Oh & with a 92% efficiency (which I doubt) the saving from the 14p per unit is not 3p as expected but 1.12p.

So with 3 units at �3k each you will have to use 803571 Kwh to break even. At 23 units per day thats 34937 days or 95 YEARS.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46232
Location: yes

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 7:12 pm Post subject:
my "bit expensive"seems an understatement when i see your maths . how long til battery tech will do the job at a reasonable price ?

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 7:24 pm Post subject:

RichardW wrote:

Oh & with a 92% efficiency (which I doubt) the saving from the 14p per unit is not 3p as expected but 1.12p.

From where are you deriving those figures for savings?

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 7:54 pm Post subject:

RichardW wrote:

Tavascarow wrote:

Another link for an article on Tesla battery. $3,000 for a 7kw battery with a ten year guarantee (plus installation). That's only $300 a year.

How much do you want to bet it will be more than double that when it's released in the UK?
Even then it's a good investment IMHO. I know people who spend �300 a quarter on leccy.

See my reply to your other post.

�300 per quarter is �3.28 per day or 23kWh per day at 14p per unit. A 7kWh unit is not going to replace that �300 a quarter bill. You need 3 of them, still think its a good investment? Oh & with a 92% efficiency (which I doubt) the saving from the 14p per unit is not 3p as expected
but 1.12p.

So with 3 units at �3k each you will have to use 803571 Kwh to break even. At 23 units per day thats 34937 days or 95 YEARS.

But if you are being paid to generate through FITs & can store the majority of your solar arrays production for use in the dark wee hours when we most need, it makes sense. Even if that only replaces a quarter or third of what some people use. & they aren't �3k they are $3k or $3.5k for a 10 Kw.
Exchange rates as they are that's not a lot of money. How much would a similar lead acid deep cycle system cost, how much maintenance, & how long a lifespan in comparison?
This is a major advance IMHO.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 8:12 pm Post subject:
There is no realistic local energy storage system that has acceptable efficiency with perhaps the exception of pumped water. The best option is to use at the point of use unless your investment in renewables is so low as to make it viable. We are still years away from this utopia but it's a goal worth achieving.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Fri May 01, 15 8:30 pm Post subject:

There should be incentives like FIT for energy storage systems.
It does occur to me that you could be naughty and store the energy then feed it back through your generation meter, but of course that would be fraud...

On cost effectiveness though, my electric is about 15p/kWh, if I switched to an economy seven tariff I could get it for less than half that, so potential savings of about 7p/kWh...
Would still take a -ing long time to pay for itself though.

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