white elderberry?

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white elderberry?
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James

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2866
Location: York

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 09 10:21 pm Post subject: white elderberry?
anyone know where I can get a white elderberry from? Anyone ever seen one?

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 09 7:25 am Post subject:
Never new it existed till now. According to Plants for a future easiest raised from seed which is unusual as all the sambucus I've raised (nigra & racemosa) have been easy from dormant hardwood cuttings. Good luck in your search anyway.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 09 8:47 am Post subject:
Used to be one planted near the entrance of the big Boots factory up in Beeston, Notts. I cycled past it every day. I believe I saw one many years ago in Warwickshire, might have been just outside of Leamington Spa in a place called Cubbington. Something of a rarity.

James

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2866
Location: York

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 09 8:59 am Post subject:

I read about them many, many years ago, then promptly forgot all about them until I came across some information about them on a wine making forum.

From what I can make out, the black elderberry, S. nigra very rarely puts these out in its progeny. But I don�t think the white elderberry produces white elderberry offspring (from what I�ve read, the black gene is very dominant)

But If I found the location of one, I could take a cutting.

The only two or three times I�ve heard of them has always been related to the fine quality of the white wines they produce.

frewen

Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 11405

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 09 9:54 am Post subject:
Ooooh - I quite fancy one too - never knew they existed either

James

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2866
Location: York

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 09 5:30 pm Post subject:

from PFAF elderberry page

PFAF wrote:

Cultivars:
'Alba'
The fruit of this form is very pale and seems to be much more acceptable to the human palate than the type species. In a taste test all 7 people found the raw fruit of this form quite acceptable to eat[K].
'Cae Rhos Lligwy'
The fruit is large and green with a gooseberry flavour[200].

I've not found a source of "Alba", but have tracked "Cae Rhos Lligwy" down to the agroforestry research trust (out of stock till autumn 09) and The Herb garden & historical plant nursery, Gaerwen, Anglesy (who claim to be the originators of this variety; no info on availability).

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45670
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 09 11:42 am Post subject:

James wrote:

Just seen this, yes, Martin's the best source for elderberry cultivars

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 09 11:58 am Post subject:
I must try to find a moment to get down to where the specimen I knew was growing in Notts. next time I'm up there, see if its still okay. And maybe take a cutting.

James

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2866
Location: York

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 09 2:47 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

James wrote:

Just seen this, yes, Martin's the best source for elderberry cultivars

Sorry for my ignorance, Tahir, but... Martin who?

I've been given a couple of recommended locations by someone on a wine making forum, so will be keeping an eye open come autumn.

sickpup

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 164
Location: Amble,Northumberland

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 09 1:50 pm Post subject:
how do you take a cutting from a tree? didnt think it was possible

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 09 1:57 pm Post subject:

James wrote:

tahir wrote:

James wrote:

Just seen this, yes, Martin's the best source for elderberry cultivars

Sorry for my ignorance, Tahir, but... Martin who?

I've been given a couple of recommended locations by someone on a wine making forum, so will be keeping an eye open come autumn.

Tahir hasn't answered, I'll jump in if I may...

Martin runs the ART. Its pretty much the case that Martin IS the ART, as far as I can tell. And he's an excellent chap, very helpful and free his with good advice. Has a staggering array of very interesting plants available too.

lottie

Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 5059
Location: ceredigion

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 09 2:35 pm Post subject:
I've bought several plants and trees from him -----including 5 different elderberries and they are great for unusual apple trees and other plants/trees that are difficult to get---very reliable and helpful.

James

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2866
Location: York

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 09 3:48 pm Post subject:

sickpup wrote:

how do you take a cutting from a tree? didnt think it was possible

I've read a few different methods for taking elderberry cuttings, but this seems (from one who's not yet taken an elderberry cutting) to be the most likely to work:
use one year old wood, taking the stem off were it joins the two year old wood. Ripping the stem off, including some 'heal' (the join between the 1 year and 2 year wood) is best. Allow it to callus, then re-plant in late winter.
I'm not sure if you need the full length of the 1 year old cane, or if you can get away with using a short (1 ft?) length with the heal. I think I'll try both.

Elderberry breaks bud quite early, so I'd be tempted to plant some straight into potting compost and allow them to callus in-situ.

If elder is like any other soft fruit, callusing occurs prefferentially in warmer temperatures, so only starts to happen when the weather warms up in spring. If rooting is to be succesfull, the heal should callus before the buds break. To increase the speed of callusing on soft wood cuttings, I put stems close to the edge of a black pot left outside. The pot warms up, but the wind keeps the stems cool. I've also hear of putting a small amount of damp sawdust around the base of the the stems and rapping in black plastic & elastic banding it on. The root area will be slightly warmer than the stems, so will callus before bud break.

Oddly, I read one account saying that elderberries were one of the few plants that would root upside down. I'm not at all sure how true this is....

87sambucus

Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 2

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 09 8:53 pm Post subject: source for all varieties of sambucus including the white one
i have a collection of 87 varieties of sambucus (elderberries) some of which are for sale through this web page www.cgf.net hope this is of some help to all concerned

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45670
Location: Essex

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 09 8:13 am Post subject:
Not many for sale though? Any good fruiting ones you'd recommend?

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