Permitted Development Rights for 5 hectares + query

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Permitted Development Rights for 5 hectares + query

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21tournay

Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 3

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 12:33 pm Post subject: Permitted Development Rights for 5 hectares + query
Morning Does anyone know if you own 1.5 hectares of land and rent grazing land for sheep of around 4 hectares whether that is sufficient to comply with the Permitted Development Rights for agricultural holdings over 5 hectares, or do you have to actually own all the land? Many thanks in advance.

gil
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18415

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 1:11 pm Post subject:
I think you have to own all the land [could be wrong, though], but yes, if the separate parcels of land add up to 5 hectares, you do fulfil the requirements.

21tournay

Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 3

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 1:23 pm Post subject:

gil wrote:

I think you have to own all the land [could be wrong, though],.

Thanks gil

Is there anywhere online I can check this as all the docs I read mention nothing about whether it includes rented land, just a unit amounting to 5 hectares or more - even the farmers guide to planning doesn't make this clear!

RichardW

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 8:24 pm Post subject:
I think rented is ok BUT once you dont have the agri need the item must be removed so I would guess that once you dont have 5 acres the same would apply. I think Doc Rob would know for sure. Richard PS plant trees there is no min size.

Dr Rob

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 273
Location: Moylgrove, nr Cardigan, Pembs

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 8:36 pm Post subject:
[quote="RichardW"]I think rented is ok BUT once you dont have the agri need the item must be removed so I would guess that once you dont have 5 acres the same would apply. I think Doc Rob would know for sure. Not sure off the top of my head except that a grazing licence (eg 6 months) wouldn't qualify. A full agricultural tenancy might. I'll look it up.

gil
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18415

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 8:37 pm Post subject:
And on that basis, I guess 'grass parks' [round here], which have a 364-day duration, don't count either.

resistance is fertile

Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 1534
Location: The heart of North Devon

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 09 4:11 am Post subject:

My understanding is that rented land that is included as part of your holding size must be well related to the other plot, ie not miles away, and the rental should be of a longer term agreement if, as others have said, you dont want to run the risk of having to remove the facilities down the line.

"Development is not permitted by Class A if the development would be carried out on a separate parcel of land forming part of the unit which is less than 1 hectare in area"

There are still PD rights for holdings of more than 0.4 but less than 5 Ha but more limited in scope, as set out in Part 6 Class B of the GPDO.

Is it buildings you are after?

21tournay

Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 3

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 09 8:52 am Post subject:

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Dr Rob wrote:

Not sure off the top of my head except that a grazing licence (eg 6 months) wouldn't qualify. A full agricultural tenancy might. I'll look it up.

Would really appreciate that.

Resistance Is Fertile, yes going forward buildings, potentially.

The problem is, maybe, having read you replies is the fact that over 7 acres is owned and a further 6.5 acres rented - so over 12 acres/5 hectares in total but the rented land is a 'gentlemans agreement', longterm yes but nothing on paper....

alpacafarmer

Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 1

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 09 5:56 pm Post subject:

Hi,
my understanding of PD is that for the period of the 28 day, you should have 5 hectares or more and this can be in part owned and part rented, though the piece you intend to build on must meet the minimum size requirements mentioned by the other people here who responded.

There is a really cool book called Field to Farm by David Acreman, and he explains indepth how to use PD to your advantage. You might want to consider downloading the intro to his book to see if it would help you. Its free on this site https://www.fieldtofarm.com (hope its ok to post urls - I am in no way connected to this site - I just bought the book and found it amazing - just wanted to share).

Yours,
Alpaca Farmer

Di Howes

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Near Yeovil, Somerset

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 09 12:42 pm Post subject: Planning

We have just managed to get planning consent for a barn but had a real struggle. We own just over 6 acres and rent a further 7 acres during the winter months. The planners would not consider the rented land at all. Just did not count! We keep 6 Dexter cows, 5 Kune Kune pigs and piglets at various times of the year, 4 sheep and lambs plus 20 chicken and 7 ducks.

At first they said there was no need for a barn despite a lengthy supporting letter from us explaining it was needed for hay/straw storage, the tractor, topper, etc., plus housing for animals if needed, say for illness, calving/lambing, etc.

After a site meeting and various compromises (on our part!) we did eventually get permission for a steel barn 50ft x 30 ft.

The planning lady had now gone on sick leave because of stress!!!!

Di

clydesdaleclopper

Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 100
Location: N E Scotland

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 09 6:01 pm Post subject:
Where are you based? If you are in Scotland there is no 5 hectare limit.

Dumnonian

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 67
Location: North Devon

Posted: Sun May 15, 11 6:18 pm Post subject:

alpacafarmer wrote:

There is a really cool book called Field to Farm by David Acreman, and he explains indepth how to use PD to your advantage. You might want to consider downloading the intro to his book to see if it would help you. Its free on this site https://www.fieldtofarm.com (hope its ok to post urls - I am in no way connected to this site - I just bought the book and found it amazing - just wanted to share).

Yours,
Alpaca Farmer

Oh yes? Funny how someone always pops up to plug David Acreman and his book when these issues are raised on forums like this.

https://www.selfsufficientish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19579

Sure enough, "Margo" suddenly appears to enthuse "Yes, it is a brilliant book .... I am a book owner and although have a reasonable ken of the planning law, have found the book to be invaluable. I would give it an unmitigated thumbs up for anyone wishing to live on the land"

There must be nice money to be made out of poor souls desperate for a bit of land in these days of "overage", "clawback" and other planning gain insanities.

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Sun May 15, 11 6:29 pm Post subject:
Errm, the post and thread are eighteen months old. Trawling the annals of downsizer to look for a fight is odd.

Penny Outskirts

Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....

Posted: Sun May 15, 11 6:32 pm Post subject:
I worry about people you know, I really do

Dumnonian

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 67
Location: North Devon

Posted: Sun May 15, 11 6:46 pm Post subject:

sean wrote:

Errm, the post and thread are eighteen months old. Trawling the annals of downsizer to look for a fight is *odd*.

Don't worry Sean, I was just checking out Mr Acreman on Google and found these Downsizer and Self-sufficiengtish posts - found out a good deal more about him and his online fanclub.

Cheers!

Spared myself �25 on his book of er, advice too.

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