fighting dogs...advice?

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fighting dogs...advice?
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Mrs Mouse

Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 189
Location: North Nottinghamshire

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 12 2:08 pm Post subject: fighting dogs...advice?

We have two dogs, both bitches, one a springer about 7 and one a cocker about . 4. They have had the odd fight ever since the cocker was fully grown but lately they have become more frequent and difficult to seperate. However when we do split them up there is rarely any damage done to either of them other than a very occasional scratch. As far as I can tell fights break out over possessions which we can avoid most of the time but occasionally something goes unnoticed. It also seems the cocker initiates the fights but can't finish them. Yesterday was the most dramatic fight yet, still only resulted in a slightly bruised ear as they were prided apart but we don't want to risk things getting worse and real injuries happening. Advice from anyone more knowledgable would be gratefully received. So far we are seperating them when out and at night but this seems to be causing more distress and increasing exercise and being extra vigilant about anything that could trigger a fight. Do we need to let them fight it out? Seperate them altogether? Consider rehoming

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4637
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 12 2:15 pm Post subject:

This can be worked on so don't panic yet

Having said that, you'll need to find someone else for more in-depth advice!
My initial thoughts would be that there are no medical/hormonal issues going on that could have triggered this. Or a stressful change in routine etc? You mention possessions - anything in particular? How are they both with other dogs?

As no damage is being done, I am seeing this as a squabble for top dog, and would be tempted to let them sort it out themselves. HOWEVER realistically I couldn't stand back and watch and wait for one to get hurt

I hope someone useful comes along soon!

Mrs Mouse

Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 189
Location: North Nottinghamshire

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 12 2:25 pm Post subject:

Yes its one thing to say id stand back but horrible to watch

We moved house 3 months ago but other than this issue they have settled well. Due to a combination of things they haven't had as much exercise as they are used to which I'm sure hasn't helped. As I said we are addressing this.

They are possessive about all sorts from a bit of stick, a stolen sock, a kitchen roll middle the other day, treats that aren't consumed immediately are a definite no no but they are fine around each others dinners. They have no issues with being possesive with things around humans just each other.

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 12 6:24 pm Post subject:
I am no expert either but our dogs occasionally fight. It sounds and looks awful but no particular damage gets done. If they are mostly quite happy together then it doesn't sound too serious. Is the 4 year old getting to the age when she wants to take over being the boss from the older dog?

TTouch Homestead

Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 703
Location: Cardigan, West Wales

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 12 6:54 pm Post subject:

It is difficult to give advice without seeing interactions between the two girls. Having experienced bitch/bitch fights, dog/dog and bitch/dog fights they can be scary for sure. Letting them fight it out is not really going to resolve anything.

The important thing is to stay calm and know how to get them apart safely for you and them. This is done by taking hold of back legs of each dog and "wheel barrowing" them in a circle and away from each other. They cannot balance and carry on fighting. Keep moving them away. Don't scream or shout as this can escalate things. Just be calm and quiet. If you go to grab a collar they will not always know it is you and think the dog is attacking them. This is when a lot of people get bitten.

Most times there will be a trigger - watching for signals that a dog is getting stressed can be useful to see if there is a pattern. It may be that one dog has got a slightly more unreliable response and going OTT. Moving house could well have had an impact, and taken them both out of their comfort zone

A vet visit is defo worthwhile...to eliminate other concerns e.g pain of arthritis. There could be other health issues such as sight issues/hormone. Thyroid is a biggy for changing behaviours as are female hormones! Are both bitches intact?

Ask your vet for referral to behaviourist or find a Ttouch practitioner in your area. Often it is covered on insurance as complementary therapy.

Mrs Mouse

Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 189
Location: North Nottinghamshire

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 12 7:13 pm Post subject:

Thanks that's all helpful stuff. They are due boosters soon so will chat with vet then. They are both spayed. How to seperate them is especially helpful as I did get mouthed in the process last time which, while it didnt hurt and kind of reinforced the my thoughts that the fights are more noise than substance, came as a shock. I do think the cocked would like to take top dog position but the springer, while she seems to let some things go is not ready to give it up totally yet.

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 12 8:16 pm Post subject:
are you being strict enough about being top dog yourself? As I understand it, if you are clearly pack alpha, they will fall into line rather more than if they think one of them has to fill the role

Dogwalker

Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: Mid Wales

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 12 8:41 pm Post subject:
Is it since moving house or was it happening before? Sounds like that may have triggered a try for top dog position.

Pel

Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 2366
Location: Sennybridge

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 12 9:38 pm Post subject:

If its since moving house that its got worse. Have you been giving into things more easily, and letting yourself slip? (I mean i know how stressfull it is to move and you've had a lot going on, so for us humans its easy mistake to do).
When you give them treats and sticks, can you then take them back off the dogs or do they hold on still?
I'm guessing you feed/give treats/toys to the springer first and then the cocker at all times.

Where did they used to sleep before you moved, together or both with you? When you seperate them does either of the dogs come into the same room as you, and which one?

Have you changed their diet at all?

Mrs Mouse

Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 189
Location: North Nottinghamshire

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 12 7:52 am Post subject:

No diet changes. They sleep in the same room always have, was seperate beds in the kitchen now separate sofas in living room. They used to spend more time in kitchen at old house seperate from me and the toddler but here they are in the same room as us all the time, perhaps being around a 2 year old more is stressing them more than we realised. Thinking about it, the cocker is really needy and while we try to ignore that inevitably she does end up getting more attention one way or another than the quiet undemanding springer. Hmmm several things to think about there then...

ninat

Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 606
Location: Scotland

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 12 10:01 am Post subject:
You could try DAP collars on them (Dog Appeasing Pheremone). It's also possible to get diffusers for the house, if the move to a new environment has caused the stress.

Pel

Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 2366
Location: Sennybridge

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 12 3:58 pm Post subject:

Can the dogs get away from your 2 year old? My mum's dog loves cae, and he loves the dog, however if you spend too much attention on cae (who is 2 also, so of course you are) he gets very needy and will even go as far as pinching cae's toys even though he knows it bad, but he will get some attention even if its negative attention.
I know if i've given mum's dog a good long walk, he doesnt bother so much... is it possible to give the cocker and springer some one on one time (maybe go for a walk of just throw balls that kind of thing) when your 2 year old is asleep (assuming he/she still naps). Just to see if it makes any difference.
Have you tried the game with the upside down cups and putting a ball under one and the dog has to find it and hiding something somewhere for them to find... good way of mentally tiring out a spaniel.

Mrs Mouse

Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 189
Location: North Nottinghamshire

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 12 8:21 pm Post subject:
Having observed carefully it is clearly a fight for top dog status, the cocker is slowly raising her position, mostly allowed by the springer. A plan is in place and hopefully calm will soon be resumed! Thanks for the very helpful comments and advice

mandy s

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 41
Location: Abington, sw Scotland

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 12 8:43 pm Post subject:

Ive got 2 collie bitches who would be the same given the chance, its definately a power struggle, if u ever watched or read cesair milan he has some good tips, keeping calm and assertive as someone pointed out being alpha to your pack is essential, ive realised over the years the less u verbilise with dogs the better the results. i use a click of the fingers or a firm AAT or however u would spell it

and point them to where i want them to go, this is before anything escilates, case of keeping them in their place so u are the boss.
well worth getting his book or tuning into the programes. gave me a good insite into how my dogs think and living with 4 of them its just as well

good luck with your girls

Mandy

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46340
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 12 9:51 pm Post subject:
alpha is almost impossible , in terms of running ,sniffing ,hearing etc we are cripples enforcer is viable ,hounds like to be told enough is enough and respect it even from humans let the natural order emerge with gentle (or not )policing canines need to want to fit in to be happy ki and ches are rolling about snarling and very happy at the mo

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