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tahir
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 45672 Location: Essex
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Slim
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 6612 Location: New England (In the US of A)
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rich59
Joined: 11 Jul 2020 Posts: 15
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 20 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Slim wrote: |
rich59 wrote: |
Hi Slim,
I've got some thoughts on the loss of vigour and I've seen similar on my allotment and I think I have got through it. But, can I first ask some questions? Are we talking S. Nigra or S. Nigra Canadensis? What sort of planting density? Mulched/ underplanted/ weeded? What is the management of area around the planting or the spaces between the rows? |
Sambucus cannadensis, varieties like 'york' 'adams' etc.
Grown in rows with wood/bark mulch, drip irrigation.
Similar to highbush blueberries |
My experience is with the European Sambucus Nigra, so I can't give completely relevant comment.
I have noted articles like https://www.uvm.edu/sites/default/files/media/ElderberryGuideComplete.pdf that mention this problem and various solutions.
On my allotment in the UK - original plantings grew vigorously for 2-3 years. Then they seriously stalled. 2 things I have changed. Firstly, I now feed twice a year with an NPK granular fertilizer. Secondly, I am clearing weeds so that spaces are either bare soil or plastic woven sheet paths.
Again with S. Nigra - I have observed farmers of elderflowers/ berries. Both use organic fertilisers like chicken manure. The more mature farm prunes to near the ground every 3 years or so.
Observing nature - most of the vigorous flowering/ fruiting bushes are ones that get cut back every 2-3 years. They also love being interplanted with other bushes and over growing them. And, general observation that they have wide ranging superficial roots that are probably the main feeders so don't like competition for several feet around the bush.
So my provisional answers for S. Nigra are - feeding/ removing root competition for several feet around/ appropriate pruning, and speculatively possibly interplanting with another shrub crop?
With Canadensis I did recently see comment from a grower that they seem to wander away from the original planting site - New suckers are vigorous away from the original plant. Suggests they exhaust the ground of certain key nutrients. |
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rich59
Joined: 11 Jul 2020 Posts: 15
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46218 Location: yes
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rich59
Joined: 11 Jul 2020 Posts: 15
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46218 Location: yes
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 20 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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i will give mullein a try, thanks.
with a bow i recon the springiness and adjustment of the bow is important
using resin on the string helps mobile friction, i get tangled with more than one turn on the spindle
some time i will have a go with nettle cordage(or similar strings)
ps for the bearing a limpet shell works if you can get fire before burning or drilling your holding paw
imho a good bearing, suitable stick /hearth combo and a springy bit of tree are ideal
zippo and petrol are not bad until you run out of sparker "flints" and petrol
a bit of an aside but lighting stuff found in a winter temperate rain forest or up a hill in a semi arctic blizzard is a whole different game, as is on snow or in a swamp
wettish blizzard, it took a whole magnesium block to ignite some bits of fresh, green, windswept and alone on a mountain, Scots pine to cook a yummy tasty victim (another story) and keep me alive
that one is probably my most extreme , in several ways, fire lighting so far
i did have food and kit but fire was essential by then as my fairly minimal kit was wet and it was starting to get a bit iffy
if it had gone wrong my remains would probably still be there
maybe we should do a fire thread:wink: |
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Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15972
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rich59
Joined: 11 Jul 2020 Posts: 15
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rich59
Joined: 11 Jul 2020 Posts: 15
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Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15972
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gil Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 08 Jun 2005 Posts: 18415
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Nicky cigreen
Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 9881 Location: Devon, uk
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NorthernMonkeyGirl
Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 4630 Location: Peeping over your shoulder
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46218 Location: yes
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