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sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 06 12:45 pm Post subject:
Wild flowers mostly like poor soil, so don't manure the bits where you want to put them.

Jb

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 7761
Location: 91� N

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 06 12:47 pm Post subject:
Also if you have a lot of chalk then part of your problem will be drainage or rather too much of it so the ground will not hold a lot of water so you might like to look at what Beth Chatto does with her gardens as she specialises in gardening in dry environments.

gil
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18415

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 06 3:21 pm Post subject:

Herbs do well in poor soil, too (so as for wildflowers above).
Fruit trees need to get their roots down for good anchorage, so find where the deepest soil is. Have you a solid layer of chalk underlying, or is it fragmented ?
Sloes can do well on chalky soils, and I would guess blackcurrants too (they like pH7ish). You'll be growing any blueberries in a container filled with ericaceous compost (as they are acid-loving plants).
If you want to grow carrots spuds or parsnips in thin soil, defnitely go for raised beds.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 06 3:42 pm Post subject:

gil wrote:

If you want to grow carrots spuds or parsnips in thin soil, defnitely go for raised beds.

Or smaller varieties; carrots such as early nantes, paris market, and even some of the old varieties like danvers half long will be just fine in shallow soil.

Parsnips would be tougher, I'd go for something like hamburg parsley instead.

Spuds'll be okay I'd have thought if well earthed up? Although if I only grew things in a small space spuds wouldn't be my first choice of crop.

Andy B

Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 3920
Location: Brum

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 06 3:57 pm Post subject:
You could try one of those green manure crops, plant them now dig in in the spring.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 06 4:06 pm Post subject:

as much manure as you can get for the veg (lots ,buy it by the ton or get it for free if you can ,i dont know how big your garden is but a ton for every 10m2 would be a good start )
for ornamental stuff ,right plant ,right place (which is also the title of a book ,cant recall details but a librarian might help

)
spread your muck and carpet for the winter to kill weeds ,next year grow weed suppressors such as spuds ,the cucubit family maybe some nitrogen fixing beans ,when the early spuds come out plant late stuff for autumn and winter and continue the rotations until it is ace
some things will fail but that provides a new planting space (took me 4 goes to get beetroot to grow on this plot ).
ive not done dust on chalk but for dust /broken glass(ugh) over clay , the above works .
think of it as a three year plan to have rich ,weed free soil ,
it isnt quick unless you buy topsoil and often that is very weedy and daft expensive
mixed dung is not quite my bread and butter but it is the cucumber in it

have a look at help please my allotment is overgrown i got loads of good tips about soil improvement from that
look on the bright side you dont need to buy lime

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 06 5:43 pm Post subject:
I've a horrible feeling my proposed vegtable plot is full of bindweed. Will mulching with carpet rid of it, or do I need to speak nicely to George W? it's on clay (not ideal but I think its been well worked in the past, so have high hopes of growing something, other that mint, which was what it was covered in last time I was there!)

AnneandMike

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 890
Location: Over the hill and soon to be far away

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 06 6:07 pm Post subject:

wellington womble wrote:

I've a horrible feeling my proposed vegtable plot is full of bindweed. Will mulching with carpet rid of it, or do I need to speak nicely to George W? it's on clay (not ideal but I think its been well worked in the past, so have high hopes of growing something, other that mint, which was what it was covered in last time I was there!)

You've got a real problem there WW. I doubt that mulching will get rid of it unless you leave it on for 2 or 3 years. Bindweed will come back from a little bit of root so if you dig it over and get out as much as possible you need to dig out any new shoots as far down as you can follow the roots on an ongoing basis for as long as it takes. I hate to say it but glyphosate weedkiller may be your best solution and it is supposed to break down harmlessly in the soil.

moongoddess

Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 673

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 06 7:22 pm Post subject:

wellington womble wrote:

I've a horrible feeling my proposed vegtable plot is full of bindweed. Will mulching with carpet rid of it,

nay, nay and thrice nay, she says from experience of bindweed on clay soil.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news

mg x

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 06 9:35 pm Post subject:

wellington womble wrote:

Overwinter manure mulch and thick black plastic makes it look dead. It sharp comes back though, 'cos it isn't dead at all, its only been made angry.

Thorough digging and removing the roots as best you can followed by taking it out every single time it shows its head doesn't seem to kill it either.

Glyphosate, if you're goign down that route, is best used before you fragment the roots, i.e. if you want to go down the chemical route do that before digging.

Rhianwen

Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 21
Location: East Yorkshire

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 06 9:52 am Post subject:
Wow thanks So many replies, and plenty to get started with As for wanting to read successes next year, I suspect I'll do a nice line in dandelions if anyone wants any

judith

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 06 9:54 am Post subject:

Rhianwen wrote:

I suspect I'll do a nice line in dandelions if anyone wants any

Lots of things you can do with dandelions

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 06 9:13 pm Post subject:

I nearly posted that I was thinking of glyphosating, and didn't! My back is very glad!

Actually, it's not as bad as first thought - the bind weed is mostly under where the house and drive nearly are (which is pretty serious and permanent mulch!) and the veg patch is mostly nettles. Are they as bad?

It's still clay, though OH has saved all the topsoil from the build, and has a load of old scaffolding planks. Wonder what I'll do with those?

Rhianwen

Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 21
Location: East Yorkshire

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 06 8:29 am Post subject:
Nettles are useful You can steep them in water for a few weeks and they make a great fertiliser

Sarah D

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 2584

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 06 8:38 am Post subject:
And beer, and soup, and salad, and dye, and wine..........also dandelions, also both good for feedstuffs for animals. Don;t get rid of them, well, not all of them.

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