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Downsizer Forum Index -> Site guidelines, Announcements, Problems and Suggestions

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stumbling goat

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1990

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 7:04 am Post subject:

Silas wrote:

Jonnyboy wrote:

Well there you go, I've been called pathetic for moderating the 'F' word and advising some politely of the change.

We try to moderate with a light touch, and we can't check every post. So some stuff gets through especially if there are no complaints. Therefore there will always be a low level of swearing on the site. At times the level increases to a point where people notice and make complaints, so we try to deal with it in a sensible way.

Of course, whatever we do some people will never be happy because they have the luxury of self interest.

Sorry Jonnyboy, I do not criticise you for moderating the 'F' word, I think that be fair enough - and you are certainly correct in that we have the luxury of self interest. It seems to me that there are a couple of people on the mod team who do not like the use of 'language' and think it appropriate to treat us like six year olds when we converse like normal adults.

can see your point silas. when chatting you alter your language to suit your audience as we all do. the issue here is that no one knows who the receiving audience consists of. and it may not be your target audience. and the conversation is out there, preserved, unless moderated or deleted or edited or otherwise altered and the audience continually changes. so i guess the aim is to cater for or consioder that whatever is written is suitable for the individual that is deemed most in need of protection?

sg

Silas

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 7:05 am Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

Silas wrote:

Yes, I was waiting for that daft response from someone.

What, common sense?

No, just a trite and predictable post.

Silas

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 7:07 am Post subject:
Well, it is time people woke up and realised it is not language that is the problem, its the way it is sometimes used that is the problem.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 7:36 am Post subject:

Silas wrote:

Well, it is time people woke up and realised it is not language that is the problem, its the way it is sometimes used that is the problem.

Too right. Even ordinary non-offensive words can cut deep if crafted well enough.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 7:42 am Post subject:

vegplot wrote:

Silas wrote:

Well, it is time people woke up and realised it is not language that is the problem, its the way it is sometimes used that is the problem.

Too right. Even ordinary non-offensive words can cut deep if crafted well enough.

And something we also keep an eye on, along with many other things. Silas is right though, perhaps we should look closer at people who try and deliberately offend or wind people up.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 8:02 am Post subject:

Bebo wrote:

Brownbear wrote:

Bebo wrote:

Bernie66 wrote:

Some people dont have the personality to object publically. Some people are introvert. Some people need looking out for,
Thats just how it is

Wow, moderators as protectors of the downtrodden innocent. Do you get to wear your pants outside your trousers too?

To be fair, if you're a person who gets upset by what you find crude language, you're unlikely to be the sort of person to confront someone about it.

RobR and a number of others seems to have been eloquent enough in stating their case against swearing in the public forum, so I'm not sure that's true.

Not really, I've given up raising it as an issue because asking people to self-moderate their language just seems to result in them getting huffy and using those words more. I'd pretty much accepted that Downsizer has become a place where it is OK to swear & have been more careful as to who I reccomend use the site.

I haven't tried to state a case against it, just tried to suggest a way of self-moderation that would/should be acceptable to the majority bar the most/least sweary of contributors. That explanation was picked apart/mocked because of some pensioners who swear like dockers so I tried to put it another way.

I'm yet to complain about anyone's language directly and I wouldn't do it because if people can't respect Downsizer collectively, I doubt an individual request would be any better, even worse. I don't think there is a need for individuals to be picked out on either 'side'.

Behemoth

Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 8:09 am Post subject:

Silas wrote:

Well, it is time people woke up and realised it is not language that is the problem, its the way it is sometimes used that is the problem.

Yes, when someone stands in the crowded village hall, loudly effing and and blinding, knowing that others find it offensive or an uncomfortable enviroment to be, it's hard to concluded that they are not being deliberately rude and provactive.

ksia

Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 2320
Location: Mayenne, France

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 8:36 am Post subject:

Phew. Long thread. Can't not add my twopen'orth.

It's a great site.

Most people use common sense, most of the time.

I've never had any probs with mods.

I (ia) apologise for any offence I may have caused in the past - I started off very feisty then calmed down. Maybe people need to get used to a place. (ks is always nice)

Some ideas are (probably) out of bounds. As is (probably) some language. But context is all. I remember pasting up a certain Larkin poem - I didn't censor it, and nor did the mods. And this was right!

Maybe the parallel to look at isn't pre-watershed telly, but Radio 4? Serious, fun, challenging, controversial topics sometimes, strong views, strong language at times ..... but always civilised.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28246
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 9:12 am Post subject:
I would tend to concur, I think pre-watershed does fail quite a bit as a description, but then again it probably only really fails if people want to pick the phrase apart rather then listen to its message.

resistance is fertile

Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 1534
Location: The heart of North Devon

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 9:29 am Post subject:
I have an old copy of 'For whom the bell tolls' and have always loved the way that all of the swearing in it is substituted with the word 'obscenity'. By halfway through you get so used to it that it is how the characters are actually speaking Its surprising how well you get their points without the need for the language itself.

Silas

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 9:35 am Post subject:

When I were nobbut a lad, one of our school english text books was 'Escape from Colditz' or something like that (not a particularly good book as I recall), but one of the substitutions was 'Mucking' instead of the obvious expleteive.

Do you think us as 9/10 year olds knew what it was a substitution for - of course we did, and as a consequence half the people in the playground became 'Mucking Idiots'. So I think bunging and asterix (sp?) instead of a vowel does not really achieve much.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 10:38 am Post subject:

jema wrote:

I would tend to concur, I think pre-watershed does fail quite a bit as a description, but then again it probably only really fails if people want to pick the phrase apart rather then listen to its message.

You're assuming that there is an objective (or sufficiently widely held as to mean more or less the same thing) view of what 'pre watershed' means, or indeed of what is or is not language that can reasonably be expected to offend. Isn't it clear from this and the previous thread that such may not be the case?

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 10:47 am Post subject:

Silas wrote:

Do you think us as 9/10 year olds knew what it was a substitution for - of course we did, and as a consequence half the people in the playground became 'Mucking Idiots'. So I think bunging and asterix (sp?) instead of a vowel does not really achieve much.

I want to agree, but, strangely, when it comes down to it we're not talking about whether people understand what you're saying, we're talking about whether people are offended by it. And while it seems senseless, fewer people seem offended by $h1t than by the real word.

In a more rational world you'd be right. But it ain't a rational world, if it was the very idea of particular words that carry a special offensiveness unrelated to what they actually mean would be considered a bizarre anachronism.

But here we come back to the same basic issue; there is not a defined view of what is or is not offensive. We don't have a general consensus, at least not one that would stand up to the slightest bit of scrutiny.

How this relates to what a forum is for... Well, I'm not sure it does. I'm unclear as to what the 'chat' forum is for; the others make a kind of sense.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 09 12:10 pm Post subject:
I disagree that it is about the offensiveness of the words per se, I think it is more about the overall impression the site gives to a newcomer(s).

Green Rosie

Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 10498
Location: Calvados, France

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 09 12:27 pm Post subject:

I've only skimmed through this thread so apologies if this has been said before or is completely off topic but it's my view.

A forum for me, is where a group of people with a similar interest can pass on and receive advice and information. There should be the opportunity to chat on a range of possibly less DS related subjects, as we would if we met in reality for a pint/slice of cake.

And as far as my thinking what a forum is, this one works exceedingly well. I have learnt so much from it and hopefully added some useful information of my own. For me, Chat is great. In there I can chat with "friends", have a laugh, pass on and/or receive helpful advice on all sorts of topics which may or may not be related to Downsizing. This is important for me, living in a foreign country and not always having the chance for this type of banter in my day to day life.

There is a forum for ex-pats which I use from time to time but it is so heavily moderated that anything that even vaguely resembles a sense of humour is deleted, no explanation being given. It is the most boring site full of people who have nothing better than to add some useless comment to a simple request for information that I only really use it when wanting to buy something. (Although OH and a friend have managed a fairly long thread on the tagging and chipping of ferrets without the mods realising they are taking the whatsit

)

As Lettucewoman said - if it ain't broken ........

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