Panorama tonight (23/05) Antibiotic Crisis

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Panorama tonight (23/05) Antibiotic Crisis
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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46212
Location: yes

Posted: Fri May 27, 16 9:07 am Post subject:
colostin resistant via plasmids extra long linky for bagpuss

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Fri May 27, 16 9:07 am Post subject:

You & I both come from farming families & know farmers well.
They are (& I generalise) a very conservative bunch.
Small c not Capital C although probably the majority are politically Conservative too.
There are a generation below us that are more environmentally conscious & would love to work in the industry.
But because of the way farming has "progressed" since WW2 farms have become bigger with fewer farmers & land values have soared.
There are fewer tenancies available & the ones that are there tend to go to those already connected to the industry.
The industry they see isn't the one they want to work for & they can't afford the finance to enter another way.
IMHO the only way that generation will get into the industry & have an impact will be if the bigger non sustainable producers start feeling the pinch.
It's already happening.
I know of a dairy farmer farther down the county that instead of becoming more intensive to try & keep up has reduced his herd. Taken land out of production & now lets the land as allotments.
It's thriving & I'm sure he has a long waiting list.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sat May 28, 16 7:52 am Post subject:

You've glossed over the financials rather. Diversification isn't always an answer, it's a distraction at best and one commonly used. Access to land isn't that big an issue where I am, and more is becoming available as the baby boomer generation reach retirement. But once you've got land you need the earning capacity to pay for it & maintain it, and that's why farms get bigger, to spread fixed costs. As I've said before I've turned land down before today because I don't have enough animals to graze it. As more people diversify the market there becomes more & more saturated too because the supply is not the limiting factor.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Sat May 28, 16 9:44 am Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

I'm not promoting diversification.
Diversification is usually income earning but does little to maintain or increase food security.
Although keeping your farm wildlife & habitat diverse & converting your barns to holiday lets helps the environment.
The example I used was deliberate because the farmer is probably earning as much if not more from letting to allotmenteers as he did from his cattle.
& probably with less bureaucracy & other related headaches.
Those allotments are diverse & very productive.
Saving families food bills & taking income from big retail.
They know exactly how the food has been grown. Something most shoppers can't say.
& it's building a community on the land.
Democratisation of food production without legislative land reform.
It's a win win situation.
& there is no reason why it can't be done on different scales.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sat May 28, 16 9:54 am Post subject:
Yes, allotments can be a great way to diversify, but what has this got to do with antibiotics use in agriculture?

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Sat May 28, 16 12:24 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

Yes, allotments can be a great way to diversify, but what has this got to do with antibiotics use in agriculture?

If people are allowed to grow & rear their own pork & poultry antibiotic use in those animals will be a fraction of that used in factory farms in my humble opinion.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sat May 28, 16 12:44 pm Post subject:

Tavascarow wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Yes, allotments can be a great way to diversify, but what has this got to do with antibiotics use in agriculture?

If people are allowed to grow & rear their own pork & poultry antibiotic use in those animals will be a fraction of that used in factory farms in my humble opinion.

True, but who is not 'allowed' to keep their own pork & poultry?

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sat May 28, 16 12:47 pm Post subject:
The majority of the UK population.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sat May 28, 16 1:37 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

The majority of the UK population.

Only if they have a court order preventing you from keeping those animals. The majority of people don't keep them, mainly because they don't want to.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Sat May 28, 16 4:20 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

The majority of the UK population.

Only if they have a court order preventing you from keeping those animals. The majority of people don't keep them, mainly because they don't want to.

Not allowed at my house, nor at my allotment. It is not always the case, but it's not uncommon.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sat May 28, 16 4:40 pm Post subject:

Hairyloon wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

The majority of the UK population.

Only if they have a court order preventing you from keeping those animals. The majority of people don't keep them, mainly because they don't want to.

Not allowed at my house, nor at my allotment. It is not always the case, but it's not uncommon.

It's not you the person that's not allowed them, though, more the place. Would you have some if it was allowed?

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Sat May 28, 16 4:44 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

Hairyloon wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

The majority of the UK population.

Only if they have a court order preventing you from keeping those animals. The majority of people don't keep them, mainly because they don't want to.

Not allowed at my house, nor at my allotment. It is not always the case, but it's not uncommon.

It's not you the person that's not allowed them, though, more the place. Would you have some if it was allowed?

I would if I could, but I am too often not home. The point though is that many, if not most people are in a place where they cannot keep pigs.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sat May 28, 16 5:46 pm Post subject:

Hairyloon wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Hairyloon wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

The majority of the UK population.

Only if they have a court order preventing you from keeping those animals. The majority of people don't keep them, mainly because they don't want to.

Not allowed at my house, nor at my allotment. It is not always the case, but it's not uncommon.

It's not you the person that's not allowed them, though, more the place. Would you have some if it was allowed?

I would if I could, but I am too often not home. The point though is that many, if not most people are in a place where they cannot keep pigs.

The point is that it is that way because most people don't want to. There are loads of properties near me at which you can keep poultry or pigs, but still very few people do.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46212
Location: yes

Posted: Sat May 28, 16 6:11 pm Post subject:

i prefer the sounds and smells of pigs n chooks to those of cars,the neighbours should have multiple asbo's and several social workers but they are too middle class kids and the stink of the fat balls in the drains by the take away.

we dont have space for chooks let alone pigs... yet.

dispersement of food production would decrease the industrial use of antibiotics and have other benefits but also has the increased risk of pandemic style pestilence(bird flu springs to mind although it has often been related to intensive production)

going back to antibiotic resistant bugs and the big pharma approach to a solution they are missing out on the knowledge of millennia in that they seek a patent rather than something that works.
paracelsus was a star but there are many examples from pre galen times and the knowledge of the witchdoctor,wise woman,shaman, local medic,farmer,horse trainer,etc etc (delete as appropriate) often includes natural antibiotic remedies.just for example frankincense based ointments are pretty good at staphs and a variety of other nasty bugs,couch grass roots are ace for c,perfrinrgens etc etc etc .
by using that pharmacy the problem can often be cured before one is dealing with systemic sepsis of tissues or the whole organism.
globally there must be many plants and compounds of plant mixes that could deal with the problems big pharma have both cured and created.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Sat May 28, 16 7:53 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

Hairyloon wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Hairyloon wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

The majority of the UK population.

Only if they have a court order preventing you from keeping those animals. The majority of people don't keep them, mainly because they don't want to.

Not allowed at my house, nor at my allotment. It is not always the case, but it's not uncommon.

It's not you the person that's not allowed them, though, more the place. Would you have some if it was allowed?

I would if I could, but I am too often not home. The point though is that many, if not most people are in a place where they cannot keep pigs.

The point is that it is that way because most people don't want to. There are loads of properties near me at which you can keep poultry or pigs, but still very few people do.

Suburban properties?
I'm not talking about a Maoist Green revolution where the masses have to work the land.
& I'm not saying everyone would want to.
But there are a lot who live in shoebox sized houses with postage stamp gardens.
Who if they kept a trio of hens would probably get antisocial complaints from neighbours.
People who haven't got enough money to buy or rent a property in the sticks with a big garden.
They live in areas where councils are selling allotments for development to keep social services afloat & if you put your name on the waiting list you've more chance of dying of old age before you get a 'lotty.
Farmers are struggling as you keep saying.
This is one way they can diversify & help decentralise food production & improve human & environmental health.

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