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Here we go again (Avian Influenza)
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RichardW



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 07 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Chez wrote:
So should we be keeping our birds in, then?


Not acording to this site https://www.grain.org/briefings/?id=194

free range is best.

Justme

Penny Outskirts



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 07 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6328161.stm


Mr O



Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 5512
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 07 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Justme wrote:
Chez wrote:
So should we be keeping our birds in, then?


Not acording to this site https://www.grain.org/briefings/?id=194

free range is best.

Justme


Interesting stuff.... Wouldn't it be nice if someone in the position of decision maker from Defra could read it and take it into account? I don't think it will happen though

Mrs Fiddlesticks



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 10460

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 07 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Justme wrote:
Chez wrote:
So should we be keeping our birds in, then?


Not acording to this site https://www.grain.org/briefings/?id=194

free range is best.

Justme


what an interesting article. Thank you for that.

RichardW



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 07 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Mrs Fiddlesticks wrote:

what an interesting article. Thank you for that.


Your welcome but I must confess I lifted from a post on a thread I started on a diff site.

Justme

Bernie66



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 13967
Location: Eastoft
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 07 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Oh lordy, not so good then. I feel for anyone within the industry at present. Hysteria will be setting in soon again.

Cathryn



Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 07 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Headline news. Sounds awfully like Foot and Mouth panic already.


I don't mean Foot and Mouth do I

Barnie



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 40
Location: SW/Wales
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 07 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

On another forum the source is said to be, and I quote....

"cheap birds bought in by Bernard Matthews a few weeks ago from East Europe where a small out break occurred"

Makes sense, I bet BM uses it's finacial power to keep that one out of the news

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 07 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Mrs Fiddlesticks wrote:
Jonnyboy wrote:
Strange that it got into a closed system like a Bernard Matthews turkey farm.


but it sort of proves how quickly it can spread in such confined quarters. Would a free range flock have fared better do you think?


Hard to say, free range flocks are at higher risk from infection via wild birds. The spread rate would be largher irrelevent as the entire flock would have to be culled anyway.

The good news here is that as it's an industrial facility the potential for complete containment is high. Hopefully the flock hadn't been thinned out or moved.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 07 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

was bernard planning to eat those himself ?
best bio security ?
animal welfare ?
it is not healthy to raise animals by those methods

i hope all you chook keepers are sensible but not panicked and that there is no national panic. feed em well and they should stay healthy was grans advice about outbreaks etc .ie if they must stay in you have to scratch up the things they would find if they were out and about .

im glad it was b m and not a garden flock but how i feel

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 07 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Barnie wrote:
On another forum the source is said to be, and I quote....

"cheap birds bought in by Bernard Matthews a few weeks ago from East Europe where a small out break occurred"

Makes sense, I bet BM uses it's finacial power to keep that one out of the news


Does it make sense?

The incubation period of the disease in domestic poultry is a matter of hours, or days at the most.
So if the birds had only newly arrived, that might, just possibly, be the case.
There was an H5N1 report last week from Hungary. (3,000 geese.)

If these birds really were recent arrivals from abroad, that important fact will emerge soon enough.

However, personally, I'd want to establish the bona fides and reliability of such an 'internet source' before giving any credibility whatsoever to such rumours.
Throughout Europe there are stringent controls on movement of birds in areas where cases have been reported. However, there is some doubt as to the effectiveness and accuracy of the spotting of the virus in wild bird populations.

The thing that is surprising me is not how MANY turkeys seem to have died of the disease, but how FEW of the 160,000 or so on site.
That would seem to indicate that the source of the infection was isolated to a small fraction of the birds on site. More likely than the whole flock being infected abroad might be an infected wild bird getting into ONE turkey-house, and reasonably good biosecurity admin preventing it running through all the houses.
But we don't *know* and speculation is only that.

I'd suggest that, much as I disapprove of intensive poultry rearing, this is a BAD moment to try and blacken Mathew's reputation.
Doing so would tend to suggest that the disease (currently) poses a threat to human health - which it (currently) does not, unless you are in close contact with infected birds.
Cooked eggs and poultry simply don't present any risk to the eater.
At a time when the media are hype-ing human casualties from the disease (about a few million times less than the number of bird casualties) there are serious threats to the poultry industry.
Firstly of a fall in demand affecting people's livelihoods.
And secondly the direct threat to the life of the birds - of which the birds that are most at risk, tragically, are free range birds, as having the greatest chance of contact with wild birds.

The disease has the potential to evolve over a few years (maybe less, maybe more) into a very serious human disease. It hasn't yet - in terms of the numbers of people affected. It is very, very nasty in people, but its very, very, very rare in people - so far and fortunately.
If it ever does evolve in that way, the new human disease will be spread quickly around the world by human air travellers, and not by poultry, eggs or wild birds.
Is that too complicated a concept for the broadcast media?

guyandzoe



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 07 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Well said Dougal!!

There is a media storm brewing they appear to be gunning for a fall guy. Why they have to have a perpetrator for every event i don't know. Today they are moaning about Mathews slow response but as far I can make out a few deaths occured last tuesday and by Friday Defra were in their preparing the cull. Thats pretty swift. Somwhere I've seen reports that tuesday brought less than one hundred dead - nothing to really worry about in a large house such as the one involved - but that reached over a thousand by Wednesday which IS a worry because of the very rapid build up of mortality.

The disease was confined to one house on a facility with around 2 dozen houses holding almost 160,000 birds in total.

If this case follows the pattern of others in Europe then it will not spread. It is not an easy disease to spread around especially from inside a closed system as this is.


guy

Marionb



Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 5267
Location: Mid-Wales
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 07 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Apparently they are taking the carcasses 200 miles away to be incinerated.... surely it would have been a better idea to bring mobile incinerators onto the site??

Brings back memories of the reaction when animals killed during the foot and mouth were carted by lorry to incinerators..... there were reports of the lorries leaking etc etc

RichardW



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 07 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Its only just occured to me but why did I recived a letter from the gov (DEFRA) about free flu jabs (if you are registered & have over 50 hens) over week before the out break?


Justme

saffranne



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 428

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 07 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

yes i received 2 letters two weeks ago from the sheffield primary trust asking how many poultry workers have i,and a form to fill in,as we were entitle to flu jabs

funny thing is i only have 10 hens,2 cockerels and two ducks and no poultry workers

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